Bahamas: Missing Female Diver

[Thalassamania]

We truly welcome your input and observations, they have been very useful. I am concerned about the idea that you bring forward: "From what I learend after the dive the DM was asked to buddy with Ms Wood but was not on a specific contract with extra payment. She was one of or DM's that day and obviously buddied with Ms Wood but I think to use the word hired implies that she agreed to give Ms Wood special attention and that she was at risk with out her own personal DM. I don't even think Stuart Cove offer this service."

I don't find it unusual that the operator and the employees would try to minimize their liability with such statements ex post facto. The only way we will ever really know is to see Mr. Wood's receipt.

In my mind the Instructor's duty toward Mrs. Woods does not hinge on payment (though proof of payment is proof perfect of the duty). If she, in fact, agreed to: "to give Ms Wood special attention and that she was at risk with out her own personal DM." that would be enough to convince me that there was a duty there to do more than she did. Now, if she really was supposed to be the DM for the entire group and wound up insta-buddied with Mrs Wood with no discussion of "special attention," that clearly would lessen, though no obviate, her duty,

 

[Only halcyon]

Read the OP:
Then read:


So what are the facts?

Thats an interesting question!

When reading the first post and with no disrespect to Dan with whom I did get to chat with breifly and on over hearing him talk most deff has more logged dives than I and is likely a more experienced diver than I am. Having said that the first post was a generic over view that was written based on partial second hand accounts of other divers. And it was a fairly factual sumarry posted only hours after the dive. Dan did put on a second bottle after completing the first dive and learing of what had happened and entered the water with 2 of the DM's. I did not grab a second tank as I knew it was hopeless since the DM who was with a AOW group of 2 told me he went to 170ft and could only see bubbles rising from below. He did not par take in the second dive and chated with the other divers while I did make the second dive. Which I felt was in very bad taste on Stuart Coves part but given the fact that I had looked forward to this trip for so long I wasn't going to pass on diving no matter what.

Since I was the diver the DM first alerted and I was waiting at the back of the boat after exiting the water and dumping my gear I waited for her to surface to see if what I had seen had really happened we spoke while heading back on the boat and several times after that. I only know what I was told by her and others I spoke with and forwarded that info in my posts.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

....In my mind the Instructor's duty toward Mrs. Woods does not hinge on payment (though proof of payment is proof perfect of the duty). If she, in fact, agreed to: "to give Ms Wood special attention and that she was at risk with out her own personal DM." that would be enough to convince me that there was a duty there to do more than she did. Now, if she really was supposed to be the DM for the entire group and wound up insta-buddied with Mrs Wood with no discussion of "special attention," that clearly would lessen, though no obviate, her duty,

Agree.

A point was made earlier about each diver ultimately being responsible for their own safety, and while that is absolutely true, it does not relieve someone in a "leadership" role from responsibility, or excuse a failure to take effective action when they see a dangerous situation developing.

From what has been reported here, the DM in this case was either unprepaired or unable to act in an effective manner to prevent her buddy from swimming down and away (to her death). It is still my feeling that this should not have been able to happen had the DM been paying attention and reacted appropriately to the situation in the early stages.

Best wishes.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

We truly welcome your input and observations, they have been very useful. I am concerned about the idea that you bring forward: "From what I learend after the dive the DM was asked to buddy with Ms Wood but was not on a specific contract with extra payment. She was one of or DM's that day and obviously buddied with Ms Wood but I think to use the word hired implies that she agreed to give Ms Wood special attention and that she was at risk with out her own personal DM. I don't even think Stuart Cove offer this service."

I don't find it unusual that the operator and the employees would try to minimize their liability with such statements ex post facto. The only way we will ever really know is to see Mr. Wood's receipt.

In my mind the Instructor's duty toward Mrs. Woods does not hinge on payment (though proof of payment is proof perfect of the duty). If she, in fact, agreed to: "to give Ms Wood special attention and that she was at risk with out her own personal DM." that would be enough to convince me that there was a duty there to do more than she did. Now, if she really was supposed to be the DM for the entire group and wound up insta-buddied with Mrs Wood with no discussion of "special attention," that clearly would lessen, though no obviate, her duty,

Onlyhalcoyn you have contributed a great deal to our understanding of this event. Your posts have been clear, non emotional and articulate. This and the fact that you witnessed a great deal of the event makes me inclined to accept your accounts. I appreciate that you have been willing to answer questions to the best of your ability. I really hope that you are finding benefit from participating here, that it is helping you put things in perspective find closure or what ever jargon you want to use!

I would appreciate it if you could tell us how you came to the conclusion that the DM was not hired specifically to buddy with Mrs Wood?

The part I have bolded in Thal's post is quite significant to me. I have been buddied with a DM who was also responsible for other divers at the same time. I felt at the time that created more responsibility for me to keep track of the DM and stay close because the DM had other duties. I did not like the arrangement then but I was/am a competent diver who accepts responsibility to keep myself out of trouble. Both buddies bear responsibility here... the DM could have an emergency which their buddy needs to be prepared to respond to... this is not a one way arrangement!

I take the role of buddy seriously because gear/health failures can occur with little or no warning through no one's fault! IMHO It is not a buddy's duty to get you out of trouble you blunder into through sheer stupidity, irresponsible behavior and failure to maintain reasonable skill levels because you can't be bothered making the effort!

 

[openmindOW]

Memories are tricky things . . . it is very easy for two people to have two (or more) different perspectives and for those perspectives to change over time and be influenced by subsequent events/conversations.

Absolutely true. I have spent part of my professional life involved with investigations, including death investigations. Human memory is not like a camera that takes an accurate snap-shot of a situation. We naturally filter what we see and we tend to only see what we focus on. Sometimes, we do not consciously "see" everything that is around us.

 

[openmindOW]

Onlyhalcoyn you have contributed a great deal to our understanding of this event. Your posts have been clear, non emotional and articulate.

I agree. Thank you, Onlyhalcyon.

 

[alohagal]

Thats an interesting question!

When reading the first post and with no disrespect to Dan with whom I did get to chat with breifly and on over hearing him talk most deff has more logged dives than I and is likely a more experienced diver than I am. Having said that the first post was a generic over view that was written based on partial second hand accounts of other divers. And it was a fairly factual sumarry posted only hours after the dive. Dan did put on a second bottle after completing the first dive and learing of what had happened and entered the water with 2 of the DM's. I did not grab a second tank as I knew it was hopeless since the DM who was with a AOW group of 2 told me he went to 170ft and could only see bubbles rising from below. He did not par take in the second dive and chated with the other divers while I did make the second dive. Which I felt was in very bad taste on Stuart Coves part but given the fact that I had looked forward to this trip for so long I wasn't going to pass on diving no matter what.

Since I was the diver the DM first alerted and I was waiting at the back of the boat after exiting the water and dumping my gear I waited for her to surface to see if what I had seen had really happened we spoke while heading back on the boat and several times after that. I only know what I was told by her and others I spoke with and forwarded that info in my posts.

I have read every post on this thread when it first started and continue to do so. I am intrigued, of course, by anything you have to post since you were actually there. I know I ask you to reiterate on a regular basis. But, could you try, to the best of your ability, give the DM you refer to above, her take on things. What she told you? And what she felt her partnering role to Ms. Woods was that day? Did she make any comment on that? And specific details are good. Keep them coming if you can. It is greatly appreicated.

 

[ScooterSouthFlorida]

I can't believe I read the whole (well almost all of it..) thread.......

Lots of great theories being shared/discussed. I am glad I joined the board, lots of good insight and knowledge on here.

I think Occam's Razor applies here, 'when you have two competing theories that make exactly the same predictions, the simpler one is the better.'

I think the simplest theory out of all the one's floated, is the correct one. This DM was either undertrained, underqualified, physically incapable of doing the job, or a combo of all three. Hired, not hired, paying attention, not paying attention, stroke, no stroke, is all back seat driving (or back seat diving), the fact is this DM screwed up and it cost someone their life.

If this DM made contact with the victim, then the only thing that happened after that was the DM was not qualified to then take control of the situation, as they should have been trained to do to become a DM in the first place. And no, I am not saying DM's should save someone at all costs/risks, I am saying that if the DM was able to establish contact, it was the DM's lack of ability/training/physical limitations that caused the DM to not be able to haul this diver to the surface.

It's like a parent on tv saying 'I only turned around for two seconds and lil' precious was facedown in the pool.' That's all it takes, and if you are not willing to watch those in your charge like a hawk, don't be a DM (or a parent for that matter.)


Ok, off my soapbox now, you can now lob grenades at the newbie for posting!

 

[Only halcyon]

I think the only way to clarify this is for me to send an email to the dive investigators and ask, I was told by one of the investigators that they would share their findings in an effort to give me some closure. I will try and send it this weekend and settle if the DM was specificaly hired to watch over Ms Wood or not

 

[Thalassamania]

Who are the dive investigators and whom do they work for? My past experience with Bahamian cases (and that was a long time about, things may well have changed) would lead me to expect that they are local police, poorly trained, with more interest in glossing thinks over and keeping local businesses and tourist board happy than in actually getting at the truth.