Bahamas: Missing Female Diver

[scubadeb1970]

I have been following this thread. Can anyone tell me why they can't find the body ?

 

[mikerault]

At x thousand feet it is cold even in the tropics. Decomposition is going to be pretty slow so she may never build up enough gas inside to overcome the weights before she gets eaten...

 

[boulderjohn]

Granted in my example you can't say for certian that whichever of the two was attempting the rescue didn't cause his own demise but the fact that the divers were holding onto each other would lead some to believe that whoever expired first (diver with gas in cylinder maybe) had a death grip on the diver attempting the rescue.

What makes a diving rescue different from a swimming rescue is the ability of the rescuer to inflate a buoyancy device (or drop weights), even when gripped by a panicked diver.

I have never had to do a rescue of this sort, but I had an experience during a technical diving training exercise that might be helpful to this discussion.

A diver wearing overfilled steel LP 108 doubles and a stainless steel backplate in fresh water (thus vastly overweighted without adding a pound of ditchable weight) had his mask removed for a drill and got disoriented. He felt as if he was ascending (he wasn't), and he started dumping air, causing himself to start dropping rapidly. He could not tell that he was dropping at first, so he continued to dump. I grabbed him within a second or two, and I could feel a lot of weight pulling me down. I jacked my own wing, and we started to ascend. He sensed that ascent and continued to dump air until I was able to get a hold of his hand and signal that he was OK.

The biggest problem we had was that I overshot my wing and had to start dumping air myself to keep us from shooting to the surface. (Of course, getting him back to neutral without a mask was fun, too.)

 

[TheScubaBOB]

I have been following this thread. Can anyone tell me why they can't find the body ?

Probably because it's a weighted body with presumably no air in the BCD so it will just get more negatively buoyant as it sinks towards the hard bottom several thousand feet down the wall.

Also when decomposition does set it and the gasses expand inside the body they will probably rupture the body cavities and excape the body during any ascent thereby rendering the body negativly buoyant again so it will drop to the bottom once more.

 

[Thalassamania]

Looking back at the discussion, the issue wasn't limited to forced death of rescuer at the hands of a diver but a Panicked Diver having killed a would-be rescuer.

The distinction escapes me.

Granted in my example you can't say for certian that whichever of the two was attempting the rescue didn't cause his own demise but the fact that the divers were holding onto each other would lead some to believe that whoever expired first (diver with gas in cylinder maybe) had a death grip on the diver attempting the rescue.

Frankly it is more likely that the rescuer was hanging on to the victim and trying to swim the victim up rather than using his BC (else he'd have been found on the surface) and suffered from CNS oxygen toxicity.

FWIW, I would think that anytime someone attempts to rescue a panicked diver at depth and the rescuer also dies that is considered a panicked diver killing the rescuer (no intent required).

I would disagree, to consider that the panicked diver killed the rescuer there needs to be some form of damage actively inflicted on the rescuer by the victim, else the entire distinction is specious.

But as you can see below, there was never the stipulation of the victim forceably causing the rescuer's death. I do agree that one of the theories of this thread does involve forceable resistance.

I do not believe that either Doc Intrepid or I were subscribing to your definition, I believe that we were both on the same page.

In any case we need to keep in mind that this entire discussion is in the context of a specific incident that while perplexing does not indicate a panicked diver. The panicked diver discussion is only relevant in considering whether it was reasonably prudent for the Instructor to abandon her charge over a concern for her own safety in approaching a possibly panicked diver at 140 feet.

 

[bsee65]

I too read through every post... in one fell swoop. Great information from most of you folks.
Just for clarity purposes as reported by DAN THE ENGINEER and MEG DIVER...the HUSBAND was more-or-less a third with the DM and the wife. But, mainly the DM was the buddy for the wife. The DM was a female as well as the victim. We are not sure at this point where the husband ended up when DM and 68 year old former stroke victim "wife" ended up at 140 feet when "rescue" attempt was aborted. Her bubbles were seen trailing at 170 feet. It was reported she was combative when DM approached her to ascend. Also, unclear is whether this DM was "hired" voluntarily by the couple or "forced" upon the wife by Dive OP due to health problems or recent dive inactivity. It has been speculated here that she was either 1. Narced 2. Suffered another stroke 3. Suicidal. 4. Strong personality not wanting to be bossed around by young whipper snapper.

Alas, I have learned much from the back and forth on this thread. I realize I am more naive than ever...have had a few close calls of my own....and liked diving better as an "ignorance is bliss" newbie.

I believe the statements indicated that the husband was diving with another buddy. Additionally, there was a DM/Instructor acting as dive leader, that wasn't the job of the DM diving with the victim. According to statements, the primary DM was ahead of the victim with the rest of the group. Only the victim, her DM buddy and one other couple were lagging behind. That suggests that the husband was with his buddy and ahead of the wife with the primary DM.

 

[alohagal]

To clarify, i'm told the DM was charged with both Mr and Mrs. Wood. But as you go on to say restricting the charges depth to that previously agreed would have negated the danger preemptively....

Yes Steve, but the only thing i'd affiliate myself with closer than my friends is the honest truth.

I'm sorry if i paint the operation as holier than thou. (I dont know how holy you are...........)
Of course it's not, i can tell you stories that'd curl your hair, even under the dive hood:blinking:

You are as entitled to your opinion as am i.

I'd again draw your attention to the number of actual reported accidents/dangerous incidents related to this operation (here on the "board" or anywhere), with specific reference to the number of clients serviced.

I've only heard of three in the last year or so. Bias or not, i hear most everything.
One of these was actually on an outer island (Andros) and on a chartered boat from SC's under the direction of a local dive operation. One was a snorkeller on the shark dive and the last was a heart attack. Only the heart attack vic actually expired.

I do try to stick to the facts. If you wish to ignore my posts i'll totally understand. S'your prerogative.
As i reiterate again.....i did not actually witness any of the events and only can attest to the characters involved in this instance.

I proffer the previous "report" only for conjecture and had hoped merely to "jog" Meg's memory into either substantiating or corroboration or denial of specific instances or in the hopes that onlyhalcyon will do the same in his own time.

Here is a quote from Dan the Engineer. Not sure how useful it is to bring in MEG DIVER quotes.

 

[alohagal]

Okay...guess I have to go on a post hunt now!

 

[alohagal]

The lads and lasses around the dock have been disseminating this incident in a similar fashion to ourselves. Some points of discrepancy have arisen between the "general understanding" of the occurrence. Perhaps Meg could clarify or comment? The following is my reiteration of little more than hearsay. It is however, the closest we'll probably get to the facts of the incident. (unless Onlyhalcyon comes back to us, we hope he will).
If i've misinterpreted in anyway Meg or Halcyon, please do correct me.......(i'm damned certain those who are reading but wont/cant post'll let me have it RIGHT in the neck for getting it wrong!)

The dive boat (White Bungie) had three Instructor certified divers aboard. 1. Was the Dive leader. 2. Had an AOW course and was tutoring the deep dive segment. 3. Was hired in the role of private DM. Also aboard was the Captain (For information, who i'm told also holds PADI DM status). There was no Fin Photo photographers aboard. All of whom are, also, of instructor status.

About 18-20 mins into the dive, instructor 3, who is at an approximate depth of 60', sees Mrs. Wood at the considerably lower depth of 80'. She taps on her tanks and upon achieving Mrs Wood's attention signals her to ascend to her own depth. She is ignored. After further attempts to attract Mrs Wood's attention fail, the instructor descends and again communicates the need to ascend. At this stage Mrs. Wood proceeds to physically push instructor 3. away. Left with little choice but to try to over power Mrs. Woods, 3. starts to inflate her BCD. In response, Mrs. Wood starts to vent air from the BC via the shoulder dump valve. This altercation continues to an approximate depth of 140' at which point 3. decides to break contact due to the obvious ineffectiveness of her input and safety concerns at the depth being in excess of RDP's. With body language exhibiting anger and aggression, Mrs Wood descents out of sight, still dumping air from the shoulder valve as she goes.

Instructor 2. is returning from his deep dive and is at an approximate depth of 70' when instructor 3. approaches him and communicates the loss of her charge. Instructor 2. descends to, in excess of, 170' where he can still see a bubble trail from beneath him. He decides the danger is too great to descent and investigate further.
(Meg particularly, may remember instructor 2. as he, also, has hearing difficulties and uses two hearing aids)

Upon returning to the dive boat, the captain is alerted to the incident and radio's South Ocean base. Assistance is summarily dispatched.

Upon return to the craft, instructor 1. is informed of the situation, switches his tank from EANx to air and returns to the water.


Now i know the above is far short of admissible anywhere but this, the people's court. I dont work for or have any real ties to the operation other than it's an excellent place to dive. I know most of the staff very well and am able to say that those involved are of the highest caliber. I would also point out that the client to "report worthy" incident ratio is negligible. Do please, bear in mind that the shear number and quality of diver that comes through there is, generally, large and poor respectively. (I have, myself, witnessed some absolute pearls!)

Like DandyDon, i hesitate to comment on the likelihood of suicide, mostly for reasons of propriety. Most of what i'm hearing/reading indicates that whether premeditated or of the moment and narc'd, this poor lady did, consciously resist advice, physical assistance and professional guidance and descend below her capability. This, intentionally or not resulted in her tragic death.

Assuming the accuracy of the above, short of PADI (or other agencies) putting together a sub aqua self-defense, close combat and client mental health specialty (i shouldn't joke..$$$$$$??) i cant see what else instructor 3. could have reasonably done.
In the event that it's decided that she should have been able to overpower Mrs. Woods, i dont see that she is either qualified or certified (Thall). I'm fairly certain i'm not.

The DM (Instructor 3.) was back in the water for the first time following the incident yesterday. She is said to be very distraught and recovering from shock slowly, precisely as one would expect of any reasonable human reaction to such a traumatic occurrence.

Dan the Engineer, admittedly, third hand account.

 

[redacted]

True, but it has absolutely nothing to do with this incident.

That was for those who were wondering how a diver could get 20 ft below a DM without being noticed. It is quite easy when it is DM leading and client following.