Bad Ending to Otherwise Good Bonaire Trip

[dvrliz1]

Don,

Our property IS in the process of being "fortified". The cameras have arrived (waiting to go through customs), the pick proof locks are in, and the telephone system is being worked by the phone company. FYI, our parking lot is fully lit and all other lighting around the rest of the property is on timers so the minute it gets "dusky" out, the lights go on all over!

Also, the flight is actually cheap from Lubbock to Bonaire $607 plus taxes and that was at Thanksgiving. Layover is a bit but definitely worth the trip.

Don, it just seems like you are making MANY reasons not to come to Bonaire (theft, price, layover, etc). Just curious what is your budget like for a dive trip?

Please, and I am not trying to be offensive, but by the tone of your posts you are an "instant gratification" kinda guy. You want things now and don't want to wait. You will have to understand that if you do visit Bonaire it is a VERY laid back island, and we do not qualify as an "instant gratification" dive destination (well underwater, you will be instantly gratified as soon as you decend....lol....)

Liz

 

[DiveMaven]

Great point that the crime rate on Bonaire is greatly exaggerated, and I think that's what ticks the "Bonaire lovers" off the most. Nobody is trying to say that there's no crime on Bonaire, that whatever crime there is is okay, or that bad things never happen to good people. What we're trying to say is that it isn't as bad as folks make it out to be and that it's blown WAY out of proportion.

In the meantime, I'm going to enjoy my 2 week return to Bonaire and simply not worry about the possibility my towel will get stolen out of my unlocked truck.

 

[DandyDon]

Hey I don't write about all good stuff. I did a long dissertation once about bad service in a restaurant. And those dastardly cruise ships.

The thread is about crime in Bonaire and I don't consider my post a hijack. If the OP's passport and cell phone had been in the safe it would not have been stolen. If the young man in Montgomery had been home this morning at two-am he would not have been shot dead over some trivial matter.

I 'm just saying that the crime problem in Bonaire is greatly exaggerated. You get twenty rave reports and one report of theft. Then the crime rate has soared.

"If the OP's passport and cell phone had been in the safe it would not have been stolen." You think it's his fault his apartment was broken into, and that's acceptable huh?

I don't think I have ever noticed any posts claiming that the crime rate has soared but some people are habitually exaggerate, both ways. But yes, it is a thread about Bonaire crime and the funny thing is how Bonaire fans like to go on about all the great things there; very well true that they may well be, those are not directly related to the problems. At best, a trade off - and while worth it to some, you are still part of the problem. You accept it, so it has no reason to change.

Don - your favorite place is Cozumel. I suppose that no one you know has been fined a thousand pesos - usually to be paid on the spot - by the Policia. This is not a crime - is it?

You know, I don't. There was a thread about one case once that I recall, but that officer went to jail. You see, on Coz - the tourists are considered off-limits it seems. Cheat them in the common manner, but don't make them feel threatened. When I deadbolt my door at night, I know that even if a bad guy swims ashore on the other side because the property is locked up with a door watchman, he can't open the sliding door with the broomstick in the way.

Next!

Go forth - enjoy adventure - and laud those folks like Liz who see a problem and work to fix it.
And if you obsess over losing some baubles - don't leave them on the car seat in Bonaire - or in Lubbock.

Obsess? Baubles?

As I noted, some exaggerate.

Don,

Our property IS in the process of being "fortified". The cameras have arrived (waiting to go through customs), the pick proof locks are in, and the telephone system is being worked by the phone company. FYI, our parking lot is fully lit and all other lighting around the rest of the property is on timers so the minute it gets "dusky" out, the lights go on all over!

Sounds great. I think you meant sensors, but I think I understand. All the improvements will be great for your property and I do hope your example serves to inspire others there. When I can work in a visit, I'd like to try to stay with you - but the solution needs to spread among others as well. Lights won't stop bad guys, but they certainly discourage them and I am sure they'd rather target vehicles in unlit lots rather than in yours.

Also, the flight is actually cheap from Lubbock to Bonaire $607 plus taxes and that was at Thanksgiving. Layover is a bit but definitely worth the trip.

Don, it just seems like you are making MANY reasons not to come to Bonaire (theft, price, layover, etc). Just curious what is your budget like for a dive trip?

Please, and I am not trying to be offensive, but by the tone of your posts you are an "instant gratification" kinda guy. You want things now and don't want to wait. You will have to understand that if you do visit Bonaire it is a VERY laid back island, and we do not qualify as an "instant gratification" dive destination (well underwater, you will be instantly gratified as soon as you decend....lol....)

Liz

Huh? Are you awake?

I simply noted that the small crime problem there is but one of the 3 reasons I haven't been there yet. Actually the tickets seem to be running $573+tax/$635 total, but my income is down too and I'm paying less than half that for my next Coz trip - since you asked. When my LDS did their last trip there, I considered coming but they had all day layovers in IAH both ways until Continental reinstated a Saturday flight to Lubbock which currently makes it all day only one way - unless they cancel it again on Saturdays.

I don't know where you read Instant Gratification into that. Now I am familiar with the approach "you will have to understand...is a VERY laid back island" which is often offered when a contractor can't deliver as previously promised, but I hope you didn't mean that here. I guess it seems more so to most as most Americans live in cities; I live in Mayberry.

Great point that the crime rate on Bonaire is greatly exaggerated, and I think that's what ticks the "Bonaire lovers" off the most. Nobody is trying to say that there's no crime on Bonaire, that whatever crime there is is okay, or that bad things never happen to good people. What we're trying to say is that it isn't as bad as folks make it out to be and that it's blown WAY out of proportion.

Yeah yeah yeah.

No

Anytime a crime is reported on here, as it should be - it is discussed. These discussions aid those planning visits and aid those who find such rates unacceptable. It is not exaggerated, but others do blow smoke.

In the meantime, I'm going to enjoy my 2 week return to Bonaire and simply not worry about the possibility my towel will get stolen out of my unlocked truck.

And there it blows. Comparing a towel in the unlocked truck to discussions of thieves walking around occupied bedrooms, or even actual property that will be stolen and having to leave the truck unlocked to avoid damage so the villains may go thru your vehicle (ugg) without irritation.

It is funny tho, in that you probly spend more time than I would getting there and back, and higher prices even tho you have great diving in your back yard there on Hood Canal. It is nice to try different sites.

 

[DiveMaven]

It is funny tho, in that you probly spend more time than I would getting there and back, and higher prices even tho you have great diving in your back yard there on Hood Canal. It is nice to try different sites.

Don, it is clear we'll never see eye to eye, which is just fine with me. Not only do I respect your right to choose, but I also support it 100%.

I'm sorry but there is simply no comparison between Hood Canal and Bonaire, and I don't know anyone locally who would pick 5' viz and 45 degree water over 80' viz and 80 degree water if given the choice. IMO even a "bad" day diving Bonaire is better than the best day here, which is one big reason we prefer not to dive locally.

 

[DandyDon]

Don, it is clear we'll never see eye to eye, which is just fine with me. Not only do I respect your right to choose, but I also support it 100%.

I'm sorry but there is simply no comparison between Hood Canal and Bonaire, and I don't know anyone locally who would pick 5' viz and 45 degree water over 80' viz and 80 degree water if given the choice. IMO even a "bad" day diving Bonaire is better than the best day here, which is one big reason we prefer not to dive locally.

Haha, yeah I probly shouldn't have mentioned Hood as it's certainly not comparable. It's neat, so much better than what I have within hours of here - but certainly not the same.

Bonaire does sound wonderful, probly well worth the extra time & money to get there and back. So why is the crime problem allowed...?

Apartment burglaries are not petty crime; it's serious to have some crook walking about your bedroom while you sleep or while alway either one. Liz is finding solutions to the break-in problem - great! I suppose that these changes could have been made long ago, so I can only speculate that this discussion has helped make that happen. If solutions can happen there tho, why not other properties?

I did look around a little further. Not a lot, but some. The Bonaire Reporter is not going to publicize these, and Bonaire Talk does not allow them unless you include a copy of the police report but the problem has existed, including the challenges of convicting under Netherlands law as Liz noted earlier here. I could write and say I'm not coming until the various properties make their rooms safer but that wouldn't have any validity. The ones they will listen to are you all who have been there, and will or won't come back. So, rather than defending a low yet still unacceptable crime rate, why not type messages demanding changes for the continued flow of your dollars...??

The vehicle problem could be addressed even easier. What would it cost to import and weld a lockbox in the back of each pickup? It could happen. If the trucks can be imported, the boxes can too. What? $200-300 each? So the cost of renting goes up $1/day - no biggie.

Or, you can keep blowing smoke. It does make a clear view of the situation challenging...

 

[gypsyjim]

Personally, from all that I have seen, read and learned from personal experience and the experiences of others, I think the crime on Bonaire has gotten blown way out of proportion. Crime of this sort and much worse in some cases happens everywhere. Bonaire is no exception. I have never traveled or dived anywhere that crime was not a consideration.

Belize, Mexico (even US) and many of the islands in the Caribbean have serious drug and crime problems, and tourists getting killed in Mexico on occasion has been known to happen. Resorts in the Dominican Republic used to have to have fences and guards with automatic weapons on patrol. We were warned to be very careful in isolated areas near Cancun. I had a friend who's very close friend lost an arm to a machete in a robbery on St Thomas in the 70's. Practically every resort and hotel I have stayed in warns tourists staying there to lock all valuables in the safe and secure the doors and windows! They must have reason for such warnings, even if we don't hear the specifics in the news we read!

We have dived in many locals, including diving on Bonaire 5 or 6 times, and no where have we ever been robbed or had a vehicle broken into. BUT crime is a factor to consider no matter where you dive, including the good ol USA. Many vehicles get broken into both at remote sites and in the cities of our own country, and at a far greater rate than Bonaire. There are a large number of areas of this country I feel a LOT less safe in than on Bonaire!

It is only here in America that I have returned to my vehicle at a hiking trail head to find my car either burglarized or vandalized more than once (even tires slashed one time in Pennsylvania Dutch coutry, at a trail head!). Gear has mysteriously disappeared from dive sites at times, also here in our own country, but you don't hear such dire warnings about diving in America.

When a burglary of any sort happens on Bonaire it tends to get known quickly, partly because it is a relatively small island. Because diving is such a significant part of Bonaire's economy and culture, and divers communicate with each other I think we hear about these crimes much more quickly within the dive community than we do crimes occurring on other, larger sites, especially where diving is not such a major part of the culture!. I think the crime on the larger islands just gets overlooked by most divers because they are not hearing about it, in great part because divers are a much smaller proportion of the tourists there.

All my opinion of course.

 

[UnderwaterBumbleBee]

Don - your favorite place is Cozumel. I suppose that no one you know has been fined a thousand pesos - usually to be paid on the spot - by the Policia. This is not a crime - is it?

My sister and brother-in-law went to Cancun a few months ago, I advised against renting a car because of how crazy people drive there and because I've heard about a few police corruption stories around Mexico. He rented the vehicle and was pulled over for speeding while on his way back (alone) from one of the Mayan ruin sites. I may be wrong but I don't recall seeing many, IF ANY speed limit signs on my last trip to that area and we saw plenty of ridiculous passing on the shoulder of the road. Fortunately for him, he is fluent in Spanish. According to him, the cop needed some money to buy diapers for his kid and my B-I-L claims he only had to pay him $40 US. Not condoning what either of them did but did tell him so...

Travel, much like diving, opens yourself up to more risks. Doesn't mean I'm going to stop doing either of them, just try to be as safe and aware as possible. If that means not traveling somewhere you aren't comfortable with, then don't go there and leave it at that. I'm not going to complain about how much I would love to visit Baghdad if it wasn't so unsafe. Scratch that one off my list, I don't think they have any diving there.

 

[ianr33]

BUT crime is a factor to consider no matter where you dive

Saba?

Little Cayman?

 

[DiverVince]

I am amazed when I read these threads. Don, admittedly you have never been on Bonaire, and know nothing of it's customs, laws or practices. It appears that all the information contained within your loquacious postings are gleaned from second hand sources; i.e. others who post on the internet. Not necessarily the best nor most accurate nor reliable source since all folks have different perceptions, attitudes, agendas etc., all of which you know little about. Additionally, the majority of Bonaire's visitors have absolutely no inclination nor desire to post on a public chat board. I know this first hand.

Definitely you are entitled to your own opinions (and I'm not trying to dissuade yours) but my advice would be for you to personally spend time on the island, hopefully longer than a 1 week vacation spent underwater. Talk to the people who live there, who conduct a business there, those who are really in the know and who have accurate first hand information. In all honesty, I suspect your opinions might be changed. Alternatively, continue to get your information as you've been doing, from unknown sources, hoping it's reliable & form your opinions based upon that. Your choice, your life.

 

[gypsyjim]

Saba?

Little Cayman?

You are suggesting the there is NO crime on either island? Ever? I suppose that is possible, but more likely just a rare occurrence?

If you can find dive sites that have never had any crime, and that you can completely let your guard down when there, GREAT, BUT you will be limiting yourself to diving a VERY tiny part of this world, I am afraid!