Bad Dive Master

[El Orans]

I would rate an OW diver with 150 to 200 dives higher in dive proficiency than a DM with 40 dives.

DM's need at least 60 dives.

 

[Kim]

very well said and accurate. I think that a lot of dive masters in foreign places are in fact not DM's but just another diver that knows that local spot but has no more dive skills that the other divers. If they are calling a person a DM they should actually be a DM.

Sorry PF....this is just supposition!!! I've been diving in quite a few 'foreign places' and the DMs ARE actually DMs. I'm not saying that it never happens but I'd bet that the incidence is very small. Have you ever actually seen it? Anyone who is diving everyday for a living can become DM quite easily, and if they aren't then insurance would become a real problem.
I do think that the following is true though:

Perhaps, in many cases, too much credence is given the divemaster and his perceived abilities.

 

[pilot fish]

Not even that. Doing the same thing wrong time after time doesn't make it any better or safer. If the skill was never learnt to start with (or learnt incorrectly), it's not like it magically appears because you dive more! The number of dives as a judgement of anyones skill level is more or less useless IMO.

As useless as a pocket full of C cards and very little dive experience.

A diver with a lot of dives observes divers and see things they are doing wrong, learns from divers with more experience and picks up better skills by actually being in the water. I am now as better dive with a 150 dives than I was at 50 dives.

 

[El Orans]

very well said and accurate. I think that a lot of dive masters in foreign places are in fact not DM's but just another diver that knows that local spot but has no more dive skills that the other divers. If they are calling a person a DM they should actually be a DM.

On 2 out of 3 foreign trips I've done the DM's were actually instructors...

 

[pilot fish]

Sorry PF....this is just supposition!!! I've been diving in quite a few 'foreign places' and the DMs ARE actually DMs. I'm not saying that it never happens but I'd bet that the incidence is very small. Have you ever actually seen it? Anyone who is diving everyday for a living can become DM quite easily, and if they aren't then insurance would become a real problem.
I do think that the following is true though:

Yes, it was just supposition. As I think about it, I think you are correct, the liability issue would be a compelling reason for them NOT to do that. I would imagine that in some 3rd World situations that MIGHT be true though, in rare instances?

 

[pilot fish]

On 2 out of 3 foreign trips I've done the DM's were actually instructors...

and the 3rd?

 

[El Orans]

They were experienced European DM's.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Since DM's aren't usually used on boat dives here the only use for them is in assisting an instructor with OW classes. Since instructors need DM's more than DM's need instructors it seems to me a lot of DM's make it through the system with not so great skills.

Again, that's going to depend on the instructor and LDS. To my concern, an unskilled DM is a liability in a class ... I want an assistant I can rely on, not someone I have to keep an eye on to make sure they don't accidentally injure one of my students.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Demonstrating a skill, and mastering a skill are two very different things though.

Very much so ... and mastering a skill means different things to different people. There is a lot of subjectivity in dive instruction ... which is why this discussion occurs so often. The trick is knowing where to place the bar in order to decide that the student has met the objectives of the class.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

That is absolutely correct. You can demonstrate a skill to pass a test for a C card but you will not become proficient in it without practice, and you can only practice by diving.

Precisely ...

Divers that do OW and AOW together, then with less than 20 dives go for Rescue and on and on, till their pockets fill with C cards, have little to no proficiency. I would rate an OW diver with 150 to 200 dives higher in dive proficiency than a DM with 40 dives.

It's difficult to make generalizations ... divers are people, and people are highly variable in terms of what they can learn and how quickly they can learn it. Someone who has a good comfort level in the water prior to getting into scuba can typically learn things very quickly ... the skills themselves are not that difficult, it's the innate "battle" we have with a subconscious that was never designed to be underwater that tends to hold us back. I describe it to my students as that little devil sitting on your shoulder whispering in your ear to "get me the hell out of here". The practice you referred to earlier does more than just help you develop motor skills ... it also helps you condition that little devil to the point where you can concentrate on what you're doing. Those who have already done so through other water activities tend to progress much more quickly than those who have not.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)