Backup regulator set advice

[ericpitar]

Hello people,

If you have 200+ dives, the questions below are for you.

Some background:
--I plan to do 100 to 200+ dives to complete a photography project.
--My current reg setup is MK25/R109/R190/Suunto gauges. All serviced 20dives ago.

Now my questions:
I'm thinking of getting a backup reg *set* (1st, 2nd, octo, gauge) or if not a whole set, a few of the components atleast (maybe just a spare gauge, 2nd stage, etc).

1) Is getting a whole backup set worth doing?
2) Have you personaly found yourself resorting to your backup reg set in a trip? If so, what component (1st, 2nd, octo, gauge) failed and what brand/model was this?
3)How often was that failed component serviced?
4)Can someone list the components in order of the number of failures? (if not through hard statistics then just from your experience)
5)If you agree a backup reg set is worthwile, how should one prioritize the items if one plans to purchase only one component at a time? (i.e. get spare 2nd stage, then gauge, then 1st stage, etc)

Thanks in advance!

E

 

[redacted]

Nothing guarantees having a regulator problem not prevent you from diving like a backup regulator. I always carry one. In about 500 dives, I have only had to use it for me once when an HP hose o-ring failed as I turned the tank on for a dive. (Easier to just take a minute to change the whole rig than troubleshoot and repair as divers were preparing to go. I replaced the o-ring during the surface interval.) I have used the backup or components on a number of other occasions to save other's dives including a DM or 2. Most common problem is a hissing 2nd; usually due to 1st stage HP seat going bad. Sometimes a simple adjustment of the 2nd works at least as a temporary cure. I have seen hoses fail, tanks fall on 2nd stages, and computers die.

I feel strongly that the complete rig is the way to go. Component repair/replacement is easy if you have time, but not the way to go if you are trying to hurry to get in the water. And the price (used) is really not much different if you are a smart and patient shopper.

BTW, I service my own reg but only when some indication of a problem is detected (usually IP creep or discolored filter). I expect to get 100+ dives or 2 to 5 years from a freshly serviced reg. Some problems are corrected by cleaning with few if any parts replaced.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I carry an extra deco reg. It can be used to replace one of the deco regs, or the first or second stage can be used to replace the primary or backup reg on my doubles. As long as you run the same IP on all your first stages, they will all interchange with all your second stages.

In terms of failure, first stages tend to be pretty bullet proof with the only real issue being the HP seat. That is easy to change on most piston regs and can be done in about 2 minutes with 1 or 2 tools. Changing the seat is not so easy on most diaphragmn regs.

The seat is also the most likely part to fail on the second stage and far more likely to fail than the first stage. On an adjustable second stage, you get lots of warning as you have to screw it down tighter and tighter as the failure approaches. On an unbalanced downsteam second stage like the R190, you get no warning, but changing the seat is a two minute job that can be done with a cresent wrench and an o-ring pick.

What is also common is to drop and crack the second stage, and or get something dropped on it. Plastic cases basically suck for a variety of reasons compared to brass cases. There is no quick fix for a cracked case, so a backup would be needed to save the day.

 

[dannobee]

I carry a complete set with a basic air computer and drysuit hose when I'm diving with a bunch of friends. Something that I wouldn't mind diving myself (not an entry level reg)

If it's just me and a buddy going out, I'll usually throw in a (doubles) left post spare instead. Has the same 1st and 2nd stage as I usually dive, and an inflator hose and SPG. That usually covers anything that could fail before a dive.

 

[halocline]

I'm trying to decide what to bring on a six week, dive-everyday trip I have coming up. Weight is an issue. I'll probably start with 2 first stages (with one rebuild kit that will service both) and 3 2nd stages (2 kits), plus a variety of o-rings and a few basic tools. If I really had to shave some luggage weight I would consider 1 first stage and 3 seconds. (they weigh less) My backup computer is the wheel (cheap, lightweight, and non-electronic) and I'm sure there would be a spare SPG if needed available.

I think it depends on what your facilities are like where you're staying. If there is no dive shop, no spare hoses, no o-rings, etc, you probably should bring those. Of particular importance would be the tiny o-rings that seal the SPG spool, or just a spare spool with o-rings installed. Those are notorious.

The regs you mentioned are known for going a long time between servicing, so I suspect that if you bring a spare, it will end up not getting used.

 

[dannobee]

The regs you mentioned are known for going a long time between servicing, so I suspect that if you bring a spare, it will end up not getting used.

Well DUH, that's a given. The only things that'll go bad are the ones that you didn't have spares of!

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Prior to a long (or expensive) trip, I service my regs and then take them for a test dive. Once that is done, they are good for the next hundred dives or so, barring contamination with bad air etc.

Changing things like the HP spool and the o-ring in the swivel end of the LP hose to the second stages are important to do if you want that kind of reliability though. I make a habit of changing all the dynamic o-rings on my regs whether they are considered to be annual service items or not.

Also, do not keep the connections finger tight on your second stages thinking it will make changing them easier. It will but it will also virtually guarentee you blow the swivel o-ring when the fitting comes partially loose. Unless you brought another one, a whole box of replacement second stages will do you no good. Keep them tight and bring a wrench.

 

[ericpitar]

In the very few dives i've done (44+), what I see most malfunctioning are either pressure or depth gauge.

2 questions
1)Can any of you advise on what gauge (especially SPG) would be *bullet* proof if there is such thing? Maybe somethin I could easily repair by replacing an oring, etc if at all?

2)I keep getting tiny water droplets inside my current suunto spg in the last 5 dives and counting. It's not enough to "puddle" at the bottom when I tip it....the droplets are just stuck to the lens inside the gauge. Any idea what this could be?

Thanks in advance.

e

 

[halocline]

In answer to your questions:
1) I don't know if there are especially bulletproof SPGs, but I like the brass/glass ones without a boot, like the dive-rite or XSscuba gauges. The no-boot option keeps salt water from being trapped around the gauge and hose junction. The best way to be prepared for SPG problems, as myself and others have posted earlier in this thread, is to have spare o-rings for the spool, or a spare spool with o-rings installed. Frequently servicing the spool (removing the SPG from the hose, taking out the spool, cleaning, installing new lubricated o-rings) will also help you.

2) I would guess that a small quantity of water is getting in your first stage, then heading straight out the HP port into the SPG.

 

[redacted]

2) I would guess that a small quantity of water is getting in your first stage, then heading straight out the HP port into the SPG.

I doubt if that is the case. Any water that enters the high pressure circuit of an operating SPG will stay in that circuit and not be visible. Any water that is visible is in the unpressurized (1 ata) portion of the SPG.

It sounds to me like you have gotten a bit of moisture in the unpressurized part of the SPG and it tends to condense into visible droplets at cooler temperatures. The gauge may continue to function for quite a while but you may want to put an SPG higher on your priority list of spares.