Backing off from technical diving

[Slamfire]

BTW, The Saturday dives into the Agamemnon channel were magnificent. Unfortunately the slackers that I dive with have only published one photo so far...

 

[down4fun]

We are pretty spoiled here in south florida too. 10-15 minutes from the dock we have:
Miracle of Life 140ft
The Guy Harvey 145ft
Trio Bravo 145ft
The Miller Lite 165ft
The Clinton 170ft
The Hydro Atlantic 175ft
The Lowrance 200ft
The Renegade 205ft
The Sucre 215ft
The RBJ and Corey n Cris 265ft
Bill Boyd 285ft
Papas Reef 300ft

it's hard to get bored

 

[tracydr]

If I lived where you do, I would certainly emphasize this if I were a dive operator. I spend a month or so in Florida each year these days, and I certainly see local operators doing all they can along these lines.

Now let's consider this approach where I live in Colorado, a state that is among the top in the nation for certified divers per capita. I just taught a class this weekend in Chatfield State Park. If you bring a shovel, you might get more than 21 feet deep. Visibility is a few feet, and if a student rototills the bottom, it is inches until the dust settles. When you take students on a dive, better have them follow a line. Either lay it yourself (as I do) or have them follow the permanent line linking artifacts like toilets, a shopping cart, etc. Unlike the other instructors in the shop, I prefer Aurrora Reservoir, where most of the year you can get past 30 feet deep.It lacks a permanent line, but there is a sunken Cessna to explore. Aurora is closed to local diving from mid Autumn to mid Spring. Chatfield is open all year, but it is really, really cold in the winter. Those are the two best sites available in the entire state, and if I am wrong, someone please let me know. The best "local" diving we have is a 6-7 hour drive south to a couple of sink holes in New Mexico.

I think that situation exists in a lot of places around the world. It is really tough to get people excited about local diving, and transitioning to tech under those conditions is even tougher.

For some unknown reason, my brother did his certification, back in the mid-80s, at Grand Lake. He remembers it being really,really cold and dark.
I think he did an SSI certification, which would make sense, in CO.

---------- Post added August 19th, 2013 at 04:14 PM ----------

Which book was this? Fatally flawed?

I haven't read the book personally, is it any good? is it just about the record 221m dive or is it more general?

Jon

yes,Fatally Flawed. I really liked it. Not very long, a little different than most dive books and written from a woman's perspective.
She talks about her fears,her experience as a support diver for other deep divers and her feelings before and after her record setting dive.
I was sort of disappointed when the book ended.

 

[boulderjohn]

For some unknown reason, my brother did his certification, back in the mid-80s, at Grand Lake. He remembers it being really,really cold and dark.
I think he did an SSI certification, which would make sense, in CO.

And at about 8,500 feet, that is certainly an altitude dive. I would not have believed anyone would do an OW dive there. The only people I know who have dived there are pretty experienced, and they were definitely in dry suits. SSI world headquarters is in Fort Collins, which is the nearest major city to Grand Lake. You still have to go through Rocky Mountain national Park, reaching an elevation over 12,000 feet on a narrow, windy road on your way there. Horse Tooth Reservoir is just a few miles away from Fort Collins, so that is where I would expect those people to to their dives.

 

[tracydr]

I really don't know why they would have chosen Grand Lake. Why not Horsetooth? I thought he was mistaken and questioned him several times.
They also did some crazy,semi-militant stuff in his class. He described a gear exchange much like the DM gear exchange which he's quite sure that he did.
I can tell you that he wasn't much into diving and didn't go diving again for many years. There are pros and cons to this type of training.
He still doesn't dive much, although he's a decent diver,considering he only dives once or twice a year, I think he just didn't have a good start. We take him out to the lake here every once in awhile and he does just fine.
I think I would have been trained by the same shop,if life had gone a different way. I was dating an ex-military, ex-commercial diver and living up in Ft.Collins in the mid-80s and I became interested in diving. But,he died of a nitrous oxide overdose ( accidental), and my life went a different way. As it was, I ended up not getting certified until 1995, in San Antonio,Tx, while in medical school.
I probably became interested in diving,though,because of this boyfriend that I had and that has changed a lot of things in my life, including finding my new husband, a dive instructor.
Life is funny sometimes.

 

[flots am]

I would have preferred a course that did mention how crucial it is to control your fears in difficult situations

I think we differ here too.

I tell my students that if any dive creates more anxiety than they get from looking out the window in a tall building, that it's probably their brain trying to keep them alive, and they should listen to it and not do the dive. "controlling fears" in OW means that there have already been one (or more likely several) bad judgement calls already.

management of panicked divers

The best thing a new diver can do with a truly panicked diver is stay out of the way.

Really managing a paniced diver requires much more self-awareness and skill than any new diver is likely to have, regardless of training.

The basic OW skills cover most of what new divers are likely to run into. The other skills would be nice, but I'm quite satisfied with a new OW diver who doesn't run out of air and doesn't lose his buddy, over one that knows how to retrieve a body but didn't get quite enough time to learn to not run out of air.

After a couple of dozen dives, they're more than encouraged to come back and learn rescue skills.

flots

 

[Slamfire]

I think we differ here too.

I tell my students that if any dive creates more anxiety than they get from looking out the window in a tall building, that it's probably their brain trying to keep them alive, and they should listen to it and not do the dive. "controlling fears" in OW means that there have already been one (or more likely several) bad judgement calls already.

Preventing an ugly situation before even getting wet is as good as it gets. Good advice. Unfortunately not all ugly situations can be foreseen before you actually get in the water. I think divers should strive to be able to face any unexpected ugly situation with fortitude.

The best thing a new diver can do with a truly panicked diver is stay out of the way.

Really managing a paniced diver requires much more self-awareness and skill than any new diver is likely to have, regardless of training.

The basic OW skills cover most of what new divers are likely to run into. The other skills would be nice, but I'm quite satisfied with a new OW diver who doesn't run out of air and doesn't lose his buddy, over one that knows how to retrieve a body but didn't get quite enough time to learn to not run out of air.

After a couple of dozen dives, they're more than encouraged to come back and learn rescue skills.

flots

After I vented my feedback to my OW instructor/shop owner said that they stay away from mentioning anything fear related at least until a diver progresses into the Rescue Course. And yet OW certifies them to dive alone with another OW that is just as green and unexposed to anything fear related underwater.

 

[DaleC]

This is where it sort of falls apart.

There's a huge difference between just planning and executing a dive and having someone who already knows what to do (a tech instructor) demand that you simulate various failures in a realistic setting, without actually exposing you to too much risk.

When I had 100 dives, I had absolutely no doubt that I could safely plan and execute a long 200'+ dive. It's just a printed dive plan and the right number of bottles with the right gas.

Then I took an actual deco class and discovered just how much various levels of depth and stress effected my RMV as well as my ability to think clearly, handle single and multiple failures in myself and my buddy, and the consequences of screwing up.

I don't think this is something you can get just by practicing without assistance from someone who really knows what's going on, what can happen and knows how to teach.

flots.

I don't think you quite got my drift. I advocate doing a longer internship at the rec level where most of those failures will be experienced and dealt with in relative safety and one develops a general sense of being able to take care of themselves underwater. Then do deco dives within rec limits, so that the experience is again gained in relative safety. No big exposure to narcossis, toxing etc... Then, when one has the basics of deco down begin to push into bigger dives.

I believe it's possible to learn how to do simple decompression dives without taking a course. In some parts of the world this is just a continuum of OW diving. But again, it takes time and a certain personality type.

There is a transition point in there some where when more instruction becomes necessary. I certainly don't think it's the same for every person and every situation. For me, I see it when beginning to use different gasses to accelerate deco, as that is a paradigm shift of sorts. But I also predominantly solo dive and limit my depths on air/EAN to avoid narcossis so I do decompression primarily to extend dives in the 100' range (which is a pretty safe way to learn how to deco dive actually).

John, I hear your points about location, I often feel for my fellow countrymen who live in Alberta and need to use chainsaws for a good part of the year.

 

[johnnyblackau]

Basic Staged decompression. Begin learning what it takes to stay down; practice within the NDL's. Collect a couple more tanks. Begin doing single gas decompression at rec depths. Slowly increase your deco time. Consider whether you like this sort of stuff. Get bored with increased hang times. Maybe get some instruction.

How would you practice these skills? What about the skills to safely do / simulate gas switches? Or are you talking about sitting at various depths.

Does anyone have any good resources to learn how to plan dives? An use the software (VPm dive planning) software but obviously using air?

 

[Rhone Man]

When I was in Truk Lagoon, the depth and repetitive nature of the diving was such that most divers went into deco at some point - even the pure rec divers. The crew suggested on the first day, for the last dive of the day if you weren't familiar with deco to set your computer to "air" whilst breathing nitrox just to get comfortable with the idea of short deco hangs whilst knowing you were not actually at risk.

Worked pretty well. By the end of the week some of them were doing some pretty long deco hangs, but that is another story...