Back-mounted counter-lungs for Meg/Pathfinder

[OceanEyes]

Does anybody on this board have personal experience with aftermarket back-mounted counter-lungs for Megs or ISC Pathfinders?

I’ve been woolgathering and hoping that ISC would offer a BMCL option for a dog’s age.

The only option that I know of that is currently available, (I presume that it is available though I’ve never seen any nor do I know of anyone who has tried them), are the ones promoted by, and supposedly made by Golem Gear.

 

[Asheron]

Check out subgravity. I belive they sell IQsub with stuff that fits megladons.

 

[rjack321]

Navy no want BM CLs = Leon won't bother trying to make them and spending $$$ getting them 3rd party tested etc.

IQsub, Subgravity, Golem are basically the same. Golem does not actually have a factory, they are made in the Czech Republic

ATS offers BM CLs with basically any T piece you want. I don't know a north american vendor for them.
ATS back Counter lungs (jonasdive.com)

 

[OceanEyes]

Thanks @Asheron and @rjack321

 

[Geo7]

Navy no want BM CLs = Leon won't bother trying to make them and spending $$$ getting them 3rd party tested etc.

Interesting, is that because BMCL exceed WOB limits set by the NAVY, or some other reason? I remember reading the Megalodon evaluation by NEDU, and the only criticism I can recall was it was more cumbersome to don than the Mk16, and range of head motion was limited, which I suspected was due to the OTSCLs. The Mk16 and new Mk29 have backmount CLs, so I thought the Navy like that?

The public Meg group FB page had a recent a statement by ISC that they are working on a streamlined BMCL solution to be anounced "soon"...

 

[rjack321]

The public Meg group FB page had a recent a statement by ISC that they are working on a streamlined BMCL solution to be anounced "soon"...

Leon has been repeating stuff like this for 15 years. I'll believe it when I see it.

In the past BM CLs "struggled" to get CE. Depending on who you talk to, CE is really just a protectionist racket. Poster child #1, somehow the Triton can get CE as an mCCR despite obviously not being able to sustain life indefinitely as required.

Leon won't BS people on something that doesn't precisely meet every letter of the CE demands like some manufacturers. So basically you end up with a bunch of BM CLs from other manufacturers that claim to be CE. And Leon says its a monumental challenge to meet every positional requirement for a BM CL. He doesn't like them, discourages the Navy from adopting them on his units. Claims to be working on one (to throw us recreational users a bone) which will meet CE forever. Its a love hate relationship between the manufacturer and the customer.

If you really want a BM CL, go get a JJ or a Fathom.

 

[rsingler]

If you really want a BM CL, go get a JJ or a Fathom.

At least JJ admits that there is one position (90° head down) where the toy won't meet BS EN 14143:2013. At least they have the courage to point it out. And the fix is simple: shut off the ADV.

 

[Geo7]

Leon has been repeating stuff like this for 15 years. I'll believe it when I see it.

In the past BM CLs "struggled" to get CE. Depending on who you talk to, CE is really just a protectionist racket. Poster child #1, somehow the Triton can get CE as an mCCR despite obviously not being able to sustain life indefinitely as required.

Leon won't BS people on something that doesn't precisely meet every letter of the CE demands like some manufacturers. So basically you end up with a bunch of BM CLs from other manufacturers that claim to be CE. And Leon says its a monumental challenge to meet every positional requirement for a BM CL. He doesn't like them, discourages the Navy from adopting them on his units. Claims to be working on one (to throw us recreational users a bone) which will meet CE forever. Its a love hate relationship between the manufacturer and the customer.

If you really want a BM CL, go get a JJ or a Fathom.

Totally agree, that is why I put the word "soon" in quotes...

Also agree that it seems fishy that some unlikely units meet CE testing, and to support your point about the CE being protectionist: As far as I know, CE requirements are heavily influenced by the group of manufacturers for a given product type, i.e. not so much in a "top down" fashion by european safety agencies. So a european manufacturer can lobby the group to set the bar where they meet it and not higher, but also not lower than what they can provide.

 

[rjack321]

ATS CLs seem legit, they are just hard to find in North America and pretty $$$

 

[Brad_Horn]

Also agree that it seems fishy that some unlikely units meet CE testing, and to support your point about the CE being protectionist: As far as I know, CE requirements are heavily influenced by the group of manufacturers for a given product type, i.e. not so much in a "top down" fashion by european safety agencies. So a european manufacturer can lobby the group to set the bar where they meet it and not higher, but also not lower than what they can provide.

Not quite for rebreathers, especially using WOB as an example where the bar to meet at a bare minimum is 2.75J/L at 40m on Air at 75lpm; but that doesn't stop one offering a unit with a WOB of 1.38J/L. You just have to spend a little more on R&D....

But you're certainly probably right back in <2003 when the EN14143 standard was first ratified. Interestingly however there is also the consideration, that a number of those rebreather manufacturers whom were involved at the time, may only have a very scarce amount of testing published for their units.

DAN have published a very good paper on CE testing of dive equipment/rebreathers by Anthony Gavin of exQinetiQ; now SGS_UK. Pg218 of their 2008TechnicalDiving Workshop Proceedings from Divers Alert Network Document Downloads

You can also see how it's done and the results of the testing of BMCL from https://www.opensafetyglobal.com/Safety_files/DV_OR_WOB_Respiratory_C1_101111.pdf

This QinetiQ report has the best comparative study of FMCL, BMCL, DSV and BOV variations for WOB under CE that I've come across https://www.hollisrebreathers.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/QQ-1900385-HollisPrism-v1-1.pdf