Back kicking with Apollo Biofins
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Couple of months ago,I had some dir divers come up to me,.
They had been watching me duiring the dive,I was backicking,frogkicking and doing heloturns.
I was just waiting for a couple of AOW students to return from their Nav. tour.
So I had to wait and was a bit borred,so did some skills'
They asked HOW I did it.They where told it was not possible.
You're a liar.
lowridersvt
Contributor
Over the years i have only seen one persone back fin in split fins and that was in appolo splits . That was in a single tanks and a wet suit and was allot of work. If your planing on diving anything other than a single a wet suit ie cave diving etc.. dont even think of splits your just going to be wasting energy .Any anti silting kicks would be very dificult to do.
My recomandations are always power fins . Scuba pro jets and oms slipstreems for wet suit jets and turtles for drysuits
As for cramping i usaly find that its mostly just poor skills that cause it and lack of hydration
My recomandations are always power fins . Scuba pro jets and oms slipstreems for wet suit jets and turtles for drysuits
As for cramping i usaly find that its mostly just poor skills that cause it and lack of hydration
yeah at least for technical diving (and this is the technical forum) split fins are never really not considered since their default propulsion mode is a maximally silty flutter kick.
I also thought that back kicking was fin dependent, till my Fundies instructor did it without fins. I can actually do it with a single tank without fins. So I would think you could do it with any fin, with proper foot leg movement.
My question would be, how effective is a split with with the frog kick, which is the kick that I use when I a moving forward and 95% of the time?
Jim
My question would be, how effective is a split with with the frog kick, which is the kick that I use when I a moving forward and 95% of the time?
Jim
I would stick with my initial post and say that split fins aren't the most efficient choice of fin. Again, it can be done, but a frog kick relies on a stiff blade to get the best results. Split fins are inherently not as stiff and allow some water to pass through the split as well as the two sections of the blade to pull away from each other. A stiff blade creates the resistance needed to get the best results. I used Scubapro Twin Jets for a couple of years before I switched to Jets and inturn sold my Twin Jets on Ebay. I could definitely tell the difference in distance and resistance in the power portion of the fin stroke.
Of course, many people see the resistance as a draw back of a blade fin. They complain of cramps and exerting to much energy. I see resistance as a positive. It allows me to easily gauge how much thrust I'm exerting and fine tune my kick.
JeffG
Contributor
Couple of months ago,I had some dir divers come up to me,.
They had been watching me duiring the dive,I was backicking,frogkicking and doing heloturns.
I was just waiting for a couple of AOW students to return from their Nav. tour.
So I had to wait and was a bit borred,so did some skills'
They asked HOW I did it.They where told it was not possible.
Then you shouldn't have a problem video taping it then.
Some scuba terrorists kidnapped me one day in Cozumel, put a speargun to my head, forced me to don split fins, tied my hands with my long hose, and pushed me overboard. Since I had the splits on and was forced to dive under threat of spearing, I tried frog kicking. I did pretty well, but it's a wierd feeling--the fins feel floppy and you don't get feedback from them. I had no success with back kicking. Helicopter turns were like frog kicks--doable, but a very different feeling. Flutter kicks were a dream, but I felt uncomfortable trying to swim upcurrent with the splits.
mts0628
Contributor
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ok one more time, lets dispel some myths about splits......
i can backfin in them. easily. and about as fast as ive seen people backfin with jets. but the technique is different. i just swam the lenght of a pool yesterday backfinning, wearing doubles because of this post. i guess its possible i couldnt do a pool lenght and a half, but i doubt it. how far do you need to backfin anyway? i also find it easier to control my trim with backfinning than with bladed fins. and ive developed my technique to a point where i actually get backwards movement on the instroke AND the outstroke (for lack of a better description), due solely to the 'floppiness' everyone is complaining about. i imagine that that is impossible using blades, can anyone here do this?. and yes, like others who have posted, i have had several people come up to me in telling me that they thought backfinning was impossible with splits (and yes that includes some very surprised dir types). its obviously not. its not even hard.
yes, you can frog in splits. easily. it is my main kick. and yes you can do it in doubles, with stages. it is slightly different technique than with blades, using a blade technique will not give good results. i have never had problems keeping up with the jet fin crowd whilst frog kicking, even in doubles, with stages.
splits work fine in a current as well. i really dont understand this claim, since all timed tests (that i have seen at least) of splits vs. paddles show that all splits are faster than all blades. before you start blasting this, look up the tests, and realize that since your cross sectional profile is constant regardless of fins, so swimming against a current should really just be an issue of speed.
helicoptering is easy with splits. the technique is significantly different than with blades, so blade users will find it difficult or impossible. doesnt mean its impossible, just that they are doing it wrong.
i do agree that cramping is often due to bad technique, fitness or hydration. but it can also come from using blades that are too stiff for you personally (remember the old gorilla fins?).
now for the background info and caveats..... i am a tech diver. i am also a cave diver, just came back from 6 months in mexico where i was a cave/cavern guide. i used splits exclusively, and obviously used all the techniques above regularly. had no probs keeping up with the blades. I find all of these techniques easier in splits than in blades, BECAUSE I HAVE OVER 4000 DIVES MY SPLITS, VS A ONLY FEW HUNDRED WITH BLADES, so of course its easier. It is entirely possible that I would get better performance with blades given a similar level of practice, but maybe not, I dont know. At least im being honest about this. Im not saying that splits are better at these techniques, just that they work just as well for those of us who know how to use them.
How many of you who criticize have equal time on splits as with blades. if you dont, than you really should have nothing to say, because you just dont know what you are talking about. until you do, maybe you shouldnt make any comments.
What it comes down to is a bunch of people repeating things theyve heard from people who dont know what they are doing, or trying something once and thinking they are experts. so funny how myths are so easily propigated through ignorance. remember how padi preached that nitrox was voodoo gas, and was going to kill us all. now its the number one speciality.
One place that splits are the hands down winners..... for those of us with back, ankle or knee problems (like the pins in my ankle from football, and the arthritis in both knees from skiing), splits are a godsend.
say hi to babyduck, i taught her OW, and created a monster! lol
i can backfin in them. easily. and about as fast as ive seen people backfin with jets. but the technique is different. i just swam the lenght of a pool yesterday backfinning, wearing doubles because of this post. i guess its possible i couldnt do a pool lenght and a half, but i doubt it. how far do you need to backfin anyway? i also find it easier to control my trim with backfinning than with bladed fins. and ive developed my technique to a point where i actually get backwards movement on the instroke AND the outstroke (for lack of a better description), due solely to the 'floppiness' everyone is complaining about. i imagine that that is impossible using blades, can anyone here do this?. and yes, like others who have posted, i have had several people come up to me in telling me that they thought backfinning was impossible with splits (and yes that includes some very surprised dir types). its obviously not. its not even hard.
yes, you can frog in splits. easily. it is my main kick. and yes you can do it in doubles, with stages. it is slightly different technique than with blades, using a blade technique will not give good results. i have never had problems keeping up with the jet fin crowd whilst frog kicking, even in doubles, with stages.
splits work fine in a current as well. i really dont understand this claim, since all timed tests (that i have seen at least) of splits vs. paddles show that all splits are faster than all blades. before you start blasting this, look up the tests, and realize that since your cross sectional profile is constant regardless of fins, so swimming against a current should really just be an issue of speed.
helicoptering is easy with splits. the technique is significantly different than with blades, so blade users will find it difficult or impossible. doesnt mean its impossible, just that they are doing it wrong.
i do agree that cramping is often due to bad technique, fitness or hydration. but it can also come from using blades that are too stiff for you personally (remember the old gorilla fins?).
now for the background info and caveats..... i am a tech diver. i am also a cave diver, just came back from 6 months in mexico where i was a cave/cavern guide. i used splits exclusively, and obviously used all the techniques above regularly. had no probs keeping up with the blades. I find all of these techniques easier in splits than in blades, BECAUSE I HAVE OVER 4000 DIVES MY SPLITS, VS A ONLY FEW HUNDRED WITH BLADES, so of course its easier. It is entirely possible that I would get better performance with blades given a similar level of practice, but maybe not, I dont know. At least im being honest about this. Im not saying that splits are better at these techniques, just that they work just as well for those of us who know how to use them.
How many of you who criticize have equal time on splits as with blades. if you dont, than you really should have nothing to say, because you just dont know what you are talking about. until you do, maybe you shouldnt make any comments.
What it comes down to is a bunch of people repeating things theyve heard from people who dont know what they are doing, or trying something once and thinking they are experts. so funny how myths are so easily propigated through ignorance. remember how padi preached that nitrox was voodoo gas, and was going to kill us all. now its the number one speciality.
One place that splits are the hands down winners..... for those of us with back, ankle or knee problems (like the pins in my ankle from football, and the arthritis in both knees from skiing), splits are a godsend.
say hi to babyduck, i taught her OW, and created a monster! lol
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