Back inflate or jacket BC

[rhwestfall]

Given the type and numbers of dives you are planing i'm not sure the adjustment to a new type of BC will be worth it, stick with what you know and what you are comfortable with.

Why, if his gear is 20 years old, and he is wanting to get something new, would you suggest he buy again the same thing just because of diving frequency? If he wants to try something else, this is more than a reasonable time..... he knows how to dive...

I can honestly say, if he doesn't find it to his liking, the resale market is probably better with a BI or BP/W than a jacket BC too.

 

[Colliam7]

I am considering a back inflate but i am concerned about stability at the surface. It seems like it would push me face forward(air in the back+ weights in the front= face in the water).

You are thinking logically, which makes it easier for people here to respond. The issue with BI BCDs has been exactly what you think – the point of lift is behind the frontal / coronal plane of the diver’s body (the vertical plane in the middle of the body, when looking at the diver from the side) while the weight is positioned forward of that plane. When the diver is wearing too much weight (in front of that plane), and then adds air / lift (behind that plane) to compensate, over they go.

You just might discern a consensus developing here: J

The face forward thing is a myth if you are properly weighted. You only need enough air in the wing to keep your chin out of the water.

You need to get your weighting proper, and play with where it works best to balance weight. Cam band pockets are quite often necessary if the rig isn't equipped with such options.

The face forward thing is a myth if you are properly weighted and inflate the bc on the surface to keep your head above water and not your entire upper torso.

Yes, it is possible that you will feel a tendency toward a face-forward attitude at first, particularly where you have too much weight (the usual culprit), combined with frontal weight-pockets on a weight-integrated BCD, combined with a ‘floaty’ back-inflate BCD. And, if a diver new to such a unit does the logical thing in response – adds a bit of sir to their BCD - it makes matters worse, at which time they add more air, go more face-forward, etc. It can be a problem, but by no means must be or even should be.

Things that help.

1. Proper weighting
2. Use of a streamlined ‘simple’ back-inflate BCD which doesn’t have noticeable inherent positive buoyancy (Zeagle Express Tech is a good example. On the other hand, a Zeagle Ranger, as one example, may not necessarily be.)
3. Proper placement of weight (aft of the frontal / coronal plane)
4. Use of a metal (stainless steel) backplate. This puts part of the weight behind the plane.
5. Use of a negatively buoyant cylinder (e.g. steel). This puts part of the weight behind the plane.
6. Crotch strap to keep the bladder / wing from rising / tilting.

While I really like the Express Tech, I personally prefer a simple stainless steel backplate. But, that choice also is influenced by how much weight I usually need when diving where I usually dive. If you are slender with low body fat, and usually dive on vacation in the warm waters of the Caribbean, and need only 2 lbs of weight, an aluminum (AL) backplate, or a ‘soft’ BI unit is probably a better choice. If you dive in colder waters, and have a bit of bioprene, and usually wear 14 lbs of weight, a SS backplate is possibly a better choice.

 

[Dahodevil]

Thanks Colliam7, the details you gave really help me figure this out. And thanks to all that responded so far. It sounds like I need to check out the Express Tech. I want to keep it light and simple for travel. So the W/BP setup or Express Tech are not weight intergrated, correct? I was really looking forward to weight intergrated after years of wearing the weight belt. What are ya'll thoughts?

 

[BDSC]

I was really looking forward to weight intergrated after years of wearing the weight belt. What are ya'll thoughts?

There are lots of excellent BI BC's that are weight integrated. If that's what you really want then look at those. Out of curiosity, thinking about what wetsuit you wear and all, how much weight do you typically use?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Depends on the diving you do and how much weight you need. Quite often moving to something like the Express Tech will take 4 lbs off your belt to start since it has no inherent buoyancy like BC's with lots of padding. Switch to a BPW with a steel plate and there goes another 6 lb of lead you no longer need. You can add integrated weights to either through various means. From pockets that slide onto the harness to plates that you bolt on to the backplate.

Integrated weights are nice if they are used properly. Most people don't. They don't know how. First of all they are likely overweighted and all that is shoved into the integrated pockets. Ok if you don;t need more than say 4-6 lbs total. More than that and the risk of an uncontrolled ascent goes way up. Because they have all the lead in the pockets and have been mistakenly trained to dump both instead of seeing that if they were properly weighted they might only need to jettison a couple pounds to start getting positive. But not being trained so, they drop all of it and are on a rocket to the surface.

I used a WI BC for two years. Then became a DM and had to wear a belt to demo skills. And ya know what. I liked it. I saw the value in distributing weight and now if I do need it it is on belt, in cambands, or bolted to my plate.

 

[beaverdivers]

All my diving is with a jacket style BC and I am very comfortable with it.

I would stick w/ what works.

Yes, add weight integration to your new jacket. You will love it. Much easier.

 

[Colliam7]

So the W/BP setup or Express Tech are not weight intergrated, correct? I was really looking forward to weight integrated after years of wearing the weight belt. What are ya'll thoughts?

I don't think the issue is so much 'weight-integrated' vs 'not weight integrated' as it is the placement of weight (as Jim suggested in his post, above). The typical WI BCD puts the weight forward of that plane. Whether the BCD is a jacket or BI is probably irrelevant - it is poorly placed in many jacket BCDs as well. But, in the case of the jacket, the lift is not restricted to a point aft of the plane. You are not restricted to a weight belt with a BP - you can put weight-integrated pockets on the waist strap of a BP harness, for example (SCUBA Diving Equipment for Technical, Sidemount, Rebreather, Wreck and Cave Diving: Dive Rite, Inc - Product Catalog - Pockets) and many people use a combination of ditchable weight in pockets and fixed weight in pockets, positioned aft of the plane, toward the rear of the scuba unit, on the cam bands (8052Z Rear weight system - Weight Pouches and Systems - BC Accessories - Zeagle Dive Systems). IOW, there are plemty of options.

 

[Dahodevil]

I normally dive with a 2.5mm shorty with 8#. I'm 5'11 and 190#. But I just started diving with a 7mm full suit and I need 28# to get down. Probably lack of experience. 20# on belt and 8# in the old BC pockets. Not a good idea. I was considering tank band pockets to put the 8# since i was slightly fin heavy. My BC has webbing around part of the tank so the weights will be centered either side of the tank. It's a Sherwood Genisis 1990 model.

 

[Colliam7]

I normally dive with a 2.5mm shorty with 8#. I'm 5'11 and 190#. But I just started diving with a 7mm full suit and I need 28# to get down. Probably lack of experience. 20# on belt and 8# in the old BC pockets.

OK, with that information, I will go further out on a limb. I think you are definitely a candidate to consider a stainless steel backplate rig.

In the shorty, you may find you need no added weight, going from the Genesis to a BP/W. In the 7mm, you will find you need substantially less than the 28 lbs. The BP takes off 6 and, as you are removing some buoyancy inherently associated with the jacket BCD.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I ordered my Zeagle Express Tech with integrated weight pockets as an option. The Zeagle ripcord release system is pretty cool. But after using the BC that way for a while I removed the pockets and now dive with a belt. To each his own.