Axiom i3

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This is why I don't debate. People assume they know more. The DM was not a fool he was a former commercial diver. And yes the plug blew. It was physically fractured. I am an engineer and I examined the plug. The metal plug was fractured and had been in place for 2 years. We all know what happens when you assume. Enjoy your dives. I am out.
 
I like everybody's suggestions and matter if fact learn more than I did before. I will not be buying any BCD until further down the line. Will try other BCDs out first, borrow a dive buddy BCDs. Everyone here gave me a very good point. I'm glad for everyone's input and thank you all.

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One thing Johnny (or other newcomers) is to think about what kind of diving you want to do. Most gear is fine for shallow reef diving and if that's the only kind of diving you are interested in then equipment selection is easy. If your diving goals are more challenging; ice diving, cave diving, wreck diving, diving in the northern Atlantic or Great Lakes, then you need to pay more attention to equipment selection. Dive gear will last a very long time with proper care, if you select the gear wisely then you will only need to buy it once. Often times the technical gear is actually less expensive (and has better resale value) than recreational gear. You can always use tech gear on a rec dive but the converse is not true.
 
Tater, I give you much respect for your opinion, posts and rebuttals on this.
 
Yes the best bet would be to use a horse collar without auto inflation. It was good enough for me to learn with and very simple!

I do suggest that if you get the i3 you avoid diving with buddies who can't adapt to 'up is inflate, down is deflate'. They most likely won't know how to read their dive computer.

.
Snarky comments, but I'll play.
In the 3D diving world which way is up? Surface, right? When the diver is horizontal, head down or head up, which way is up with the bc lever?
Im just a rec diver, but I solo on occasion. I sling a pony on the left, lol.
In any event, I had occasion once to be on hand when stuff went tits up for an instructor and his students at about 80 FT. I took one of the students to safety stop, shot a marker then to then to the surface. She was in a plain vanilla BC. :wink:
I just watched a marketing video for the Axiom I3. One question, where's the bathroom? JK, but seriously, often less is more.
 
Tater, I give you much respect for your opinion, posts and rebuttals on this.

Why exactly?

Diver's pay good money to make a dive. Besides the cost of the dive there is often transportation and hotel expenses involved also. Sometimes the weather or the seas do not cooperate and a dive must be cancelled or a new location found. That is beyond the control of the dive operator. However, to need to cancel or change a dive because of an equipment malfunction of the Divemaster's gear is unacceptable. The Divemaster should have had an extra set of gear to use, either personal or from the rental inventory. So in my opinion he is a fool. The fact that he is so experienced and an ex-commercial diver makes him an even bigger fool because he should understand redundancy.

I am also a bit skeptical of Tater's story of the Divemaster's plug blowing out. First, in over 20 years of diving I have never heard of such a thing. Second, as a hobby I do like to fix and restore old dive gear some of which is well over 20 years old and never seen an internally damaged port plug. Third if the plug actually "blew out" as was described think of the velocity it had. It would have shot far from the first stage and would have been virtually impossible to find.

However the above is speculation, let us take Tater on his word. The plug blew out as described because of a manufacturing defect. So should we use more port plugs (more complex) or less of them (less complex)? Tater's point of view appears to be complexity does not matter because even a simple piece of machined metal can fail. That view is not logical, a rational diver should arrange his gear to minimize failure. A rational diver should also test and inspect his gear before a dive to spot potential trouble like leaky hoses. I suggest you do a bit of research about "failure points".

In the real world it is not unusual for inflators to fail. (Both Halcyon and Apeks had inflator recalls) I had it happen. However, a failed inflator can be replaced with a spare inflator in less than 5 minutes assuming the diver has a spare (with zip tie) and pliers. At a dive destination any dive shop should have a spare inflator. If an I3 fails then it will require a trip to the dive shop and not all dive shops are qualified to repair it. So if it fails at a dive destination, the diver would need to rent a BC which would in all likelihood have a conventional inflator that he is not use to handling. Tater is also of the opinion that as long as the mechanism is maintained and serviced at a dive shop it should be reliable. However, most experienced divers will tell you that the probability of problems are higher after a service than before.
 
While I peraonally think its a gimmick and dangerous if a student showed up with one they bought ahead of time and planned to use it, I would have to allow it in class. I can't in good conscience tell them.they can't use it if they plan to.after class. I would have to.consider it a teaching opportunity for my other students and myself. Looking at it any other way would be ignorant and an admission of incompetence. I might have to insist on trying it for a few minutes myself to.get somewhat familiar with how it works and more importantly how it does not. But outright refuse them for an OW class? No. Advanced class I teach, yes but for technical reasons that my dives require of a student and their buddy such as the stage bottle they need to.sling on the left. But not basic ow.

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I imagined you saying that like Stephen Hawkins....lol!

---------- Post added March 31st, 2014 at 05:13 PM ----------

Why exactly?

Diver's pay good money to make a dive. Besides the cost of the dive there is often transportation and hotel expenses involved also. Sometimes the weather or the seas do not cooperate and a dive must be cancelled or a new location found. That is beyond the control of the dive operator. However, to need to cancel or change a dive because of an equipment malfunction of the Divemaster's gear is unacceptable. The Divemaster should have had an extra set of gear to use, either personal or from the rental inventory. So in my opinion he is a fool. The fact that he is so experienced and an ex-commercial diver makes him an even bigger fool because he should understand redundancy.

I am also a bit skeptical of Tater's story of the Divemaster's plug blowing out. First, in over 20 years of diving I have never heard of such a thing. Second, as a hobby I do like to fix and restore old dive gear some of which is well over 20 years old and never seen an internally damaged port plug. Third if the plug actually "blew out" as was described think of the velocity it had. It would have shot far from the first stage and would have been virtually impossible to find.

However the above is speculation, let us take Tater on his word. The plug blew out as described because of a manufacturing defect. So should we use more port plugs (more complex) or less of them (less complex)? Tater's point of view appears to be complexity does not matter because even a simple piece of machined metal can fail. That view is not logical, a rational diver should arrange his gear to minimize failure. A rational diver should also test and inspect his gear before a dive to spot potential trouble like leaky hoses. I suggest you do a bit of research about "failure points".

In the real world it is not unusual for inflators to fail. (Both Halcyon and Apeks had inflator recalls) I had it happen. However, a failed inflator can be replaced with a spare inflator in less than 5 minutes assuming the diver has a spare (with zip tie) and pliers. At a dive destination any dive shop should have a spare inflator. If an I3 fails then it will require a trip to the dive shop and not all dive shops are qualified to repair it. So if it fails at a dive destination, the diver would need to rent a BC which would in all likelihood have a conventional inflator that he is not use to handling. Tater is also of the opinion that as long as the mechanism is maintained and serviced at a dive shop it should be reliable. However, most experienced divers will tell you that the probability of problems are higher after a service than before.

So lets just cut to the chase..............why doesn't he just get a backplate'n'wing straight up!!!

Who needs to be lead by some "fool" Padi, divemaster in the first place, you got an OW ticket use it! the Divemaster can just sit this one out and play with his "try"-mix pc!

---------- Post added March 31st, 2014 at 05:14 PM ----------

This is why I don't debate. People assume they know more. The DM was not a fool he was a former commercial diver. And yes the plug blew. It was physically fractured. I am an engineer and I examined the plug. The metal plug was fractured and had been in place for 2 years. We all know what happens when you assume. Enjoy your dives. I am out.

This is common after a guilty verdict in a court room....or a camera flood scenario on a dive boat!
 
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I love my Axiom i3. It feels great. 1) you wouldn't know how to use it in an emergency? thats what predive buddy checks are for. If your not doing them, then I don't want to be your buddy. 2) The i3 is as complicated lifting a lever up to inflate and pushing it down to deflate. What I really like about the i3 is you can dump air from any position. Up down no matter where you are. I also love the preset tank strap which makes it really easy when doing multiple dives a day. I have prolapsed discs in my back and this BC helps a lot. It is also the same weight as some travel BCs. I say go for it.


.....the main complains against I3 system fall into two categories. 1) It is different so your buddy may not know how to operate it in an emergency. If my buddy wears a conventional BC I know how to manually inflate it if he wears an I3 I don't. In an emergency you do not want your buddy fumbling. 2) Complication, the I3 system is more complicated then a normal inflater. The more complicated it is then the higher the probability of something going wrong. I am not sure how valid this claim is because the same could be said about regulators too. A MK25 is more complicated than a MK2 and an S600 is more complicated than a R195, yet all are reliable.

Conventional BCs do require care but they do NOT require an annual service.

As an aside, I think it was Mares that had a similar system yet they abandoned it. I have to wonder why.
 
While I peraonally think its a gimmick and dangerous if a student showed up with one they bought ahead of time and planned to use it, I would have to allow it in class. I can't in good conscience tell them.they can't use it if they plan to.after class. I would have to.consider it a teaching opportunity for my other students and myself. Looking at it any other way would be ignorant and an admission of incompetence. I might have to insist on trying it for a few minutes myself to.get somewhat familiar with how it works and more importantly how it does not. But outright refuse them for an OW class? No. Advanced class I teach, yes but for technical reasons that my dives require of a student and their buddy such as the stage bottle they need to.sling on the left. But not basic ow.

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A gimmick?? dangerous?? Where do you come up with this stuff???
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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