attaching spare lights

[jonnythan]

Wow, I'm pretty new to diving but am interested in many of the theory's/techniques of better and safer diving I have read in the tech forums. This unfortunately is not one of them! Question?, wouldn't it be better not to create additional failure points by tying knots all over our rigs? There are many mechanical hardware options to connect clips to spg's, hoses, and backup light's eliminating the failure points created by tying knots! Although that is a good knot.

IMHO...One very simple and much more reliable way is to cut the D-ring/O-ring on the clip itself, bend it out a little, place over eyelet on backup light etc. and re crimp it....more compact, much cleaner, and much stronger. Others might include, but are not limited to small crimped SS o-rings, small key chain keepers etc. Use your imagination, but get rid of all those addition failure point knots...

My opinions expressed here are just that...you results may very depending on your willingness to think outside the box!

elmbruker

I can see your concern, but it stems from a misunderstanding of the attachment and/or not having experience with it.

These things *do not break* unless you cut them. Period. They work, and you can cut them apart unlike metal connections.

 

[elmbruker]

I can see your concern, but it stems from a misunderstanding of the attachment and/or not having experience with it.

Not to be confused...I do understand it is a very unforgiving knot. IMHO, just "Knot" needed. I made a funny!

These things *do not break* unless you cut them. Period. They work, and you can cut them apart unlike metal connections.

I too wouldn't imagine why the might break/come loose! As stated, a very good knot! But I personally wouldn't cut the knot...I'd unclasp the connector from my D-ring.

Now we could assume many possibility's in your stated intanglement....
Get untangled by either you or your buddy cutting the entanglement?
Get untangled by either you or your buddy cutting a knot?
You or buddy unclasping the connection to the D-ring?

Are you assuming the light and the D-ring are entangled and can't be simply "unclipped"? Or even assuming the clip has broken at the same time as the entanglement? Then being true to the cutting of the knot to rid the entanglement.....Are you suggesting we should put "another" knot between the connector and the shoulder D-ring so we could cut that too if need be? Then maybe a knot holding the shoulder D-ring in case we have to remove it from the harness. I guess I'll stop there, since I don't want to cut my shoulder harness.

So, since were assuming....IMHO, lets eliminate the false security provided by that
knot, the additional connection points(possible failure points), I am more concerned broken connections, losing the light, and not having it when needed than trying to resolve a light entanglement issue.

I'm absolutely interested and value your opinion, as above is just mine. I don't mean for this post to sound confrontational. I really am trying to justify this extra connection in my mind....please someone help me get back on the right track!

 

[mweitz]

Yeah, they do come apart. I've had a couple bolt snaps come off, and have seen them come off on a few other divers. You should redo them when they start to look ratty.

I thought that this forum was for DIR answers only Rick?

From here:

http://www.gue.com/Equipment/Config/index.html

Two back-up lights are attached to each of the two chest D-rings, one light per side. Each is held to the strap by an elastic band. This puts them beneath a diver's shoulders, where they are completely accessible but out of the way. Divers can always reach these lights and turn them on without unclipping them from their D-rings. Turning on a back-up light before unclipping it is very important; divers could easily drop their back-up light while trying to get it unclipped before turning it on.

Mark

 

[elmbruker]

Cave line is utilized to attach bolt snaps to bac-up lights, SPG's, etc. as it can be easliy cut in the event of entanglement. If for some unforseen reason my spg or backup light becomes tangled or wedged on something, I want to be able to cut off the bolt snap and free myself. I'm sure other will elaborate on this issue. Besides, I would hardly call tripple wrapped cave line tied off with three overhand knotts, a failure point.

Phil

I apologize for this post before I continue.

I also apologize for my misunderstanding of what a harness failure point is. As stated, I am new the the board, and am interested in safe and simplistic diving. From what I had read in other posts(I'm not quoting), but "I" came to believe that a harness failure point would be a "connection" on the harness or otherwise, that is "not" needed to safely complete a dive, and might cause a "UN-needed" safety concern to the diver.

I have been amazed by the dedication of this group to bettering our standard's of diving, by teaching technical safety that apply's to real world environments. I know this is a "very" small issue in a much broader realm of the safety that has been developed over the years.
If nobody here is concerned with extra, UN-needed connections, than I willingly accept your knowledge, as mine is limited in this situation.

 

[Rick Inman]

elmbruker,

No need to apologize. Good questions.

Make sure you read the stickies at the top of the DIR forum before posting in the DIR forum. Rule #6 says:

The answers in this forum are member's best attempts to answer questions within, and according the DIR diving philosophy. If you wish to give a non-DIR answer, please do not post it in this forum. If you do not wish your question to be limited to DIR answer, please ask it in another applicable forum.

So you can't answer a poster's question with a non-DIR answer. However, you can ask questions about DIR all you want. Like,

Question?, wouldn't it be better not to create additional failure points by tying knots all over our rigs?

This is a valid question about DIR equipment configuration. You just cannot attempt to answer another poster's question with a non-DIR answer (of course, you are welcome to do this in all the other forums).

Hope that helps.

 

[countryboy]

The simple [DIR] answer is.. there are no metal to metal connections made. Boltsnaps are attached using a "breakable" connection. These include, but are not limited to: cave line, o'rings, and zip ties.

Since rubber o-rings, and zip ties can break when you need them most.. some people prefer cave line. Whatever option you choose, inspect them regularly.

*disclaimer* I am not DIR, but am learning ...

 

[JimC]

While entanglement is a valid reason for being able to cut things off, the more prudent one in my book is that your bolt snap may seize. If I need a backup light and my bolt snap has seized, I may be dead if I can't cut the boltsnap off.

 

[Mo2vation]

While entanglement is a valid reason for being able to cut things off, the more prudent one in my book is that your bolt snap may seize. If I need a backup light and my bolt snap has seized, I may be dead if I can't cut the boltsnap off.

This is a problem with shore divers, too... I get sand in everything. I needed my Scout (Photon Torpedo, actually) recently, and I couldn't get the SS clip open.

It was jammed with sand from the previous night's faceplant I did.

I use zip tie. I'm a klutz with cave line. I just reached over and gave the thing a good yank and it separated from the mucked up snap. No biggie.

This is one of three times in like 4 years I've needed to deploy my back up light. They're always there, I just never use 'em.

I now open and close the snap a couple of times every few rinse dunks just to be sure.

---
Ken

 

[homo maris]

Forgive me for the simplistic question but is it DIR to use a thin "breakable" zip tie to attach your backup light to the SS clip?

Would it then be DIR/not DIR to attach your SPG to the SS clip with a thin "breakable" zip tie?

Thanks,
JL

 

[Doc Intrepid]

...I don't even have it clipped. Just use the bicycle tube keeper to hold it to the webbing under my left shoulder D ring.

You are so going to die...