attaching octo via snap bolt
- Thread starter Rusty Roo
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Donating primary on a short hose will work if you are ascending in the classic, face-to-face hold onto each other's BCD fashion. In fact, it's no different in that respect than people who use inline secondaries like an Air II. I have several dive buddies who prefer to have their backup regs on the necklace and donate their primary ... and who keep their primary on a 36" hose.
Necklaced backup doesn't necessarily imply long hose ... some people just prefer it because of the inherent advantages ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Necklaced backup doesn't necessarily imply long hose ... some people just prefer it because of the inherent advantages ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
diver 85
Contributor
Were you around when there was only TRUE buddy breathing--Cara a cara--ie no octos?/.....If not, should have been---cuz that makes donating a primary as easy as falling off a wet log...
.btw, always remember: 2 then 1....2 then 1.....repeat process till you hit the surface...---------- Post added April 28th, 2014 at 06:33 AM ----------
'72 here......I'm just an old FART......
.........Are you ready to whip some bummer 'tail' this year??????????????????
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Eric Sedletzky
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... that would be anatomically impossible if you've routed it properly ... on the other hand, they could always sneak up behind you and cut the darn thing ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
All this great discussion on current best practices to gear for, and manage, an OOA situation, is a great refresher for me, as I'm back in diving after a decades long hiatus, just completing a full OW re-take with a Drysuit course. I've very quickly embraced the same philosophy that Eric just summarized above. Assume that you will either proactively donate the reg out of your mouth to the OOA diver, having it on a longer than "normal" hose, and immediately use the one bungeed under your chin. Worst case scenario is probably more like being jumped by the OOA buddy who was just above and behind you so you couldn't see it coming, and you will then lose your breathing reg and probably your mask just as you are at the bottom of an exhalation. Again, you would grab the spare reg under your chin, get your air back very quickly, and get things under control.
However logical this newer way is, this seems to be different to the old ways I was trained on during the Lincoln administration, and my PADI Instructor still teaches the party line, that you donate the alternate, NOT the one in your mouth. Silly question, but how do people today using this "new" method of OOA management color code the two hose and regs? Under the current formal teaching methods, YOUR system that you keep in your mouth is black, and the alternate that you donate is all yellow and "in the triangle". If we now assume (and brief our buddies, without fail, pre-dive) that we will donate (or they will take) our primary reg, should that and it's hose be yellow, and OUR backup, in my case necklaced quietly under my chin, be in the background, black?
And for those veterans with personal experience and/or knowledge of OOA cases, is there any such thing as a typical OOA event? In particular, how often does the about-to-donate diver have any advance warning that their day is about to get very exciting? Almost always, mostly, sometimes, rarely? Even a couple of seconds should be more than enough time for the calm diver to prepare to donate by removing his primary and offering it in front, facing the OOA diver, while simultaneously taking his alternate from a few inches below his chin and popping in his mouth. Worst case as I mentioned above is the OOA diver literally jumping the donating diver at the worst moment, completely unaware, and stealing their breathing reg when they aren't perfectly prepared to relinquish it.
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My first experience with a real OOA was when I was still a pretty new diver (less than 50 dives), and the OOA person was my wife. We were diving a wall in British Columbia and she realized she was very low on air, so we started the ascent. At about 60 feet she looked at me, calmly slashed her hand across her throat, and waited while I pulled out my octopus and handed it to her. We then continued our ascent. At 15 feet I signaled a safety stop ... having just done a direct ascent up the wall from about 90 feet. She stuck her thumb up, indicating a direct ascent. I "overruled" that with an emphatic signal that we should stop. She grabbed my hand and empatically pushed it up, which I took to mean we were going up ... right ... now! So up we went. As soon as we got to the surface she spit out the reg and puked her guts out, while I manually inflated her BCD (she sure wasn't going to in her condition). Turns out the mouthpiece on my octo was broken down next to the zip tie, and she'd been breathing water the whole time she'd been breathing on it ... and swallowed quite a lot of it that now needed to come out.
Lesson learned ... the inherent advantage to donating the one you're breathing from is that you know it works.
As to your question about "typical" OOA event ... the response you're going to get will be anything from a calm hand slash and patient wait for the donating reg to a mugging from a diver who's convinced they're about to die ... it really depends on the person. The most common thing I've ever gotten wasn't an OOA, it was a LOA ... someone who's still breathing, but suddenly realizes they don't have enough air left to make it back to shore or to the surface. The most common way I know about it is that they're suddenly swimming towards me with their SPG in their hand. Whenever I see that, I get ready to donate air ... and that's happened a few times over the years.
Best preparation is, no matter what, if someone suddenly makes a move toward you, assume the worst-case ... which is OOA ... and prepare to donate. Get the reg you want them to take out in front of you ... at arm's length. If someone's OOA, they're going to take the first source of air they can reach ... so make sure that you control that situation by making the one you want them to have the easiest for them to reach. I've never agreed with the method that teaches divers to raise their arm and allow the OOA person to take the octopus ... last thing you want is to "allow" a potentially panicked diver that close to your body, or to allow them to decide which regulator they'd rather take. Active donate means you get to control that decision, and putting it out at arm's length means you get to determine their mental state before allowing them within easy reach of your body and equipment.
I've never been actively mugged ... I suppose it happens, but you can reduce the potential by being proactive, watching for the signs that a person moving toward you is in need of donation, and taking steps to make the donation as easy and fast as possible by putting the reg you want them breathing from out there where they can see and reach it ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
flots am
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I made a necklace out of some surgical tubing for my alternate second stage, and keep the primary in my mouth.
When bad things happen, you want to be able to get either reg quickly, without screwing around, even if you're wearing gloves or something jams.
The regulator-on-the-boltsnap thing is typically used by divers that have multiple (more than two) regs and they generally have some sort of breakaway connector.
markmud
Self Reliant Diver--On All Dives.
I use a bolt snap for my pony reg (2nd stage). It is snapped into the d-ring on my right side shoulder--it has enough slack for me to put it my mouth without unsnapping it. It is not comfortable until I unsnap it from the D-ring. But I can breath.
My octo is always on a quick release set-up.
I have never been involved in an OOA incident. I hope I never am as a panicking person could cause me to get defensive. I don't know how well I would react to a person who is trying to mug/kill me u/w for my air.
I know I would react well if somebody were swimming at me with their SPG in hand while giving me the OOA signal. I would have my octo ready for them.
I don't know about being mugged!
markm
My octo is always on a quick release set-up.
I have never been involved in an OOA incident. I hope I never am as a panicking person could cause me to get defensive. I don't know how well I would react to a person who is trying to mug/kill me u/w for my air.
I know I would react well if somebody were swimming at me with their SPG in hand while giving me the OOA signal. I would have my octo ready for them.
I don't know about being mugged!
markm
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