Atomic Regs w/non-Atomic Octo = PROBLEMS?

[Harley1962]

OK, I know this seems too odd to be a coincidence, but I own two Atomic reg sets : one a Z1 and the other a B2 (with ti 2nd stage). Both regs breathe wonderfully, and I have no complaints with either...

However, as I am now teaching a lot of new students I do not use my Air2 / Airsource any longer as it tends to confuse them, so I purchased two octos and installed them for a more "student friendly" configuration on both reg sets..no problems.

As it happens they were both Oceanic brand, one is the side-draft model and the other the 180 degree swivel model--both supposedly reliable and certainly good enough for an alternate air source.

After using the Z1 for about 3 months I noticed a "bubble trail" from the octo. mouthpiece which seemed to increase, so I took it to an Oceanic Dealer who said "it's the Atomic 1st stage" and then after they still couldn't diagnose it fully, I took the regs to an Atomic Dealer who proclaimed "it's the Oceanic octo", and supposedly that ALL Atomic regs MUST use Atomic branded octos..never heard that, BUT...it gets even BETTER:

I was teaching with my B2 reg set in the pool recently and notcied a "bubble trail" coming from my alternate---yes, the Oceanic, but a totally different model (180 swivel model)....I could not believe it as it was purchased NEW in October 2006, so what gives?

I even took that "new" octo OFF my 1st stage and put on a beat-up rental Aqualung octopus from one of the shop regs, and VOILA, NO bubbles!!

So, now what? Is there some compatiblity issue between Oceanic and Atomic? Do I REALLY HAVE to buy Atomic octos?

Thanks for any ideas..
HB

 

[techweennie]

Harley

For the most part there is no problem mixing brands as long as all the regs were designed to operate at the same 1 st stage Intermediate pressure(IP). Atomic and most others design the 1st to deliver 125 to 145 PSI. A balanced 2nd stage has no problem with this wide pressure spread, however, a undalanced 2nd stage can be sensitive to IP . I not fimilar with your safe seconds but I would bet they are not balanced designs.

First thing to do is have the shop check the IP of your Z1 and B2 is correct. If necessary correct out of spec IP. Then have the shop tech (Oceanic) tune up the octos while attached to the first stages.

This should clear up the problem.

Techweenie

 

[wcl]

Hi,

Wife/buddy and I have both had Atomic Z1 + Oceanic 180 Octo for 2+ years ... never an issue, both work great.

We purchased and get them serviced at our LDS, Elmer's Watersports in Evanston IL, authorized dealer and servicer for both Atomic and Oceanic ... they never said there was any compatibility issue, and seem to have been able to get it all to work together.

Cheers,
W

 

[Harley1962]

Well, my entire theory just got turned upside-down!

The rental Aqualung I put on (in frustration at my Oceanic units) that supposedly didn't leak (I only dunked in a tank for a few mins and no bubbles!), DID actually leak, exactly the same as my own "newer and better" Oceanic Alternates did--I just didn't notice until I got into the Ocean, and at first it didn't leak, or very little, but as I did the 2nd dive it became more of a problem, as before with my Oceanic alternates--so perhaps the idea that I need a "balanced" octopus to work with the Atomic 1st stages??

It just seems so strange...others seem to be able to make it work just fine with their unbalanced alternate 2nd stages!
I may have to e-mail Atomic directly....so upset!

 

[lowridersvt]

When i first perchased my stomic m1 its had a oceanic slim line on it had no issue with any leaks but i switched it out because it dint breath worth a crap when i went d.i.r i used a dive rite rg1200 octo worked awsome

 

[oxyhacker]

Mixing manufacturers reg stages can be a real drag when things go wrong (unless you got them at the same shop and at the same time so they feel some responsibility) because it gives the lazy shop an easy out for any problems - just blame the piece they didn't sell.

There's nothing unique or different about the Atomic 1sts that should make the octopuses leak - it doesn't automatically increase the IP or do any other weird tricks like some overbalanced 1sts do. However, if the IP on the 1st is set too high or creeping, it could cause a non-balanced 2nd, which most octopuses are, to leak before the Atomic 2nd, which is balanced, will. So take techweenie advice get the IP checked before you do anything else. There's not really much point in contacting Atomic until you do. Actually, it is sort of surprising that neither shop did. It is the obvious first step.

Oh, and were any of the octopuses actually tuned after they were connected to the 1st or were you just using them as they came out of the box?

BTW if you are a DM or Inst you might want to consider making or buying a simple IP gauge that goes on the BC QD, very useful for field checks when someones gear is misbehaving.

 

[Scared Silly]

I will second the reccomendation for getting a IP guage. I bought one and it is great to have around for quick checks before digging deeper. I would bet 10:1 that the IP is a bit too high.

 

[paulwlee]

It's one of two things. The IP is set a little higher than normal (but stable) or the IP is creeping.

In the former case, you can either have the IP lowered in the first stage or tune the second stage for the higher IP. For optimal performance, the octos should be tuned for the IP that the first stage is providing anyway, as if it's not, it will either bubble or have a higher cracking pressure than necessary.

If IP is creeping (climbing slowly) which you can see with an IP gauge, the 1st stage needs a service.

"Atomic second stages only on Atomic first stages" is nonsense, as you already know.

 

[jcondon26]

I'm a certified tech for Atomic, and Techweenie is correct. The break point for a 2nd stage is set for a specific manufacturer's IP range. If you connect a 2nd stage that has been set with an IP at 130 psi for example then move it to a 1st stage with a 140 psi IP, it could bubble.

The solution: The operating range IP for almost all regs includes 135 psi. It may be the high end of the range for some regs, but still within the manufacturer's specs. Have all your 1st stages set at 135 psi, and have your 2nd stages adjusted using 135 psi. Then swap as you like.

 

[ZzzKing]

I have used USD Conshelf XIV's and a Dive Rite 1208 in addition to my Atomic SS-1 on my Z-2. No freeflows or leaks of any kind in over three years. (fingers now crossed while knocking on wood)

I'd go with what the Atomic tech says, though.