Atomic DIN connector problem

[guswid]

Hello guys,

About 1,5 year ago I bought Atomic B2 regulator (DIN) and use it for only 10 times. I always take a good care of all my stuff but suddenly on the 11th dive there was leaking from the DIN connector. I took it to the LDS and they change the o-ring with a new one but still leaking. Then they tried changing whole connector with yoke connector (it's hard to find DIN connector in Bali) and the leaking is gone. So the conclusion is my DIN connector broke :depressed:

Now, since I bought this reg in grey market (no atomic dealer in Indonesia) I have no warranty for my stuff. All I can think is to buy new Yoke connector to replace the DIN (people use Yoke here). Can you tell me where I can get this thing?

Regards,
Agus - Bali, Indonesia

 

[Bubbletrubble]

How certain are you that the LDS people know what they are talking about?

The reason I ask this is that there's an outer o-ring on the face of the threaded DIN connector. That's the o-ring that the LDS probably changed. There's also an inner o-ring on the part of the threaded DIN connector that connects to the first stage (there should be an air filter in the vicinity, too). In order to access this inner o-ring, you have to remove the DIN connector with a hex key. When you change this inner o-ring and re-install the threaded DIN connector, you have to make sure that the o-ring is properly situated. Generally this is done by positioning the threaded DIN connector directly below the first stage and screwing it up directly into the first stage. Then it's advisable to use a torque wrench to tighten the DIN connector to manufacturer recommended specs. I have had inexperienced reg technicians who didn't do this properly which caused a leak at the base of the DIN connector.

The other possibility is that, when the LDS replaced the outer o-ring of the DIN connector, they may have used the wrong sized o-ring.

Replacing the DIN connector with a yoke would bypass both of these problems. This means that your reg works fine and it's probably one of the two issues I pointed out. That being said, it is still possible that your DIN connector is simply busted...but IMO it's not very likely. The fact that your LDS probably sees very few DIN regs makes me think that they may have made a mistake.

If your DIN connector is, in fact, broken, then you should be able to order the part from any Atomic dealer.

Any reg technician who is authorized to work on Atomic regs should be able to get a hold of the appropriately sized o-rings (inner, outer) for the DIN connector. It should be a very straightforward troubleshooting session (taking all of a couple of minutes to do).

Educate yourself on how your reg is overhauled. It will help you explain to the reg tech what you want him to do. Download the first stage manual from this site: http://www.frogkick.dk/manuals/atomic/

Don't give up on the DIN. There's still hope. Let us know how it goes. Good luck.

(P.S. Just so you know, I don't work on Atomic regs, nor have I ever worked on Atomic regs...but DIN connectors are all pretty much the same. I took a peek at the reg tech manual for your first stage and I stand by my recommendations.)

 

[guswid]

Hello Bubbletrubble, thanks for you opinion, I really appreciate your support.

Yes, what has been replaced is the inner o-ring, using atomic appropriate o-ring. So it's the right one. Me & my dive instructor also did this procedure before I took it to the LDS (yes I had the manual).

Since already tried with new o-ring but still leaking, the other possibility is the DIN connector not properly threaded when put it back. But then what made the connector leaking in the first place?

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Yes, what has been replaced is the inner o-ring, using atomic appropriate o-ring. So it's the right one. Me & my dive instructor also did this procedure before I took it to the LDS (yes I had the manual).

Since already tried with new o-ring but still leaking, the other possibility is the DIN connector not properly threaded when put it back. But then what made the connector leaking in the first place?

The threaded DIN connector can become inadvertently loosened from the body of the first stage while connecting/disconnecting the reg from the tank valve. It can also happen when, after the reg is connected to the tank valve, someone twists the first stage in the right direction. (I had a boat DM do this to my reg once. I had to tell him to stop touching my gear.) Part of my pre-dive regulator check is to ensure that the threaded DIN connector is secured at least hand-tight to the first stage. I do this check as I remove the reg from my carrying bin and prior to attachment to the tank valve.

From looking at the reg diagram in the repair guide, it looks like there's a conical air filter, a washer, and an o-ring that needs to be installed at the junction between the threaded DIN connector and the first stage.
Is it possible that you forgot to re-install the washer?
Also, when you installed the threaded DIN connector on the first stage did you position the DIN connector directly below the first stage and screw it up into the first stage hand-tight?
This is very important because I have seen some people position the DIN connector on top of the first stage and screw it down into the first stage. It's impossible to keep the inner o-ring in the proper position doing it this way...and the reg will leak from that area.
After installing the DIN connector hand-tight, did you tighten the DIN connector with a torque wrench (fitted with a hex bit) to the appropriate specs?

How much experience does your instructor have with working on regs?
If he overhauls regs on a regular basis and has worked with DIN connectors in the past, then he probably knew what he was doing...and that increases the probability that you do, in fact, need to replace a part.

It's possible that the seating surface of the threaded DIN connector that articulates with the first stage is somehow deformed. Still, I think this is highly unlikely. The only way I can see this happening is if someone took a hammer to the threaded DIN connector while the reg was disassembled. Theoretically, over-tightening the DIN connector into the first stage could also cause damage to this area, but I don't think this is what's caused your problem.

Please answer my questions above when you get the chance.

 

[guswid]

From looking at the reg diagram in the repair guide, it looks like there's a conical air filter, a washer, and an o-ring that needs to be installed at the junction between the threaded DIN connector and the first stage. Is it possible that you forgot to re-install the washer?

Yes, all parts already n their possition and we re-installed them properly.

Also, when you installed the threaded DIN connector on the first stage did you position the DIN connector directly below the first stage and screw it up into the first stage hand-tight?
This is very important because I have seen some people position the DIN connector on top of the first stage and screw it down into the first stage. It's impossible to keep the inner o-ring in the proper position doing it this way...and the reg will leak from that area.

We're not do the instalation position procedure but from what I experienced, the inner o-ring will not move from it position since it's fit very tight inside the connector, even to took it out we have to use some small hook.

After installing the DIN connector hand-tight, did you tighten the DIN connector with a torque wrench (fitted with a hex bit) to the appropriate specs?

But we might be missed about this. I will ask them again.

How much experience does your instructor have with working on regs? If he overhauls regs on a regular basis and has worked with DIN connectors in the past, then he probably knew what he was doing...and that increases the probability that you do, in fact, need to replace a part.

Now they are local scubapro dealer, but before they also handle atomic brand. They are certified technician and worked with DIN before. So, the probability increase to 95% :depressed:

 

[guswid]

Just got info from the LDS, they did all the procedure including tigthen to 33 FT.-LBS.
So, now I must get a new Yoke connector :depressed:

 

[a22shady]

Contact "The Scuba Connection" in NJ They are Authorized Atomic dealers.

DIVESeekers.com Call us Toll Free 888-728-2247 They are also on this Board
Dive Junkie1 --Wayne
DIVESeekers Jason --Jason
Or Email
waynef@tscscuba.com
jasonf@tscscuba.com

I am positive they can Send you the Part and Probably have it in Stock. Or you may even Be able to mail them the whole unit and they will fix it for you. Good Luck

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Yes, all parts already n their possition and we re-installed them properly.

OK. That's good.

I have to admit that I'm a little confused as to what fix your instructor tried...and what your LDS tried. To clarify, your instructor changed the inner DIN o-ring and, after it still leaked, you took it to the LDS where the same inner DIN o-ring was changed, correct?

We're not do the instalation position procedure but from what I experienced, the inner o-ring will not move from it position since it's fit very tight inside the connector, even to took it out we have to use some small hook.

I want to point out that just because the inner o-ring "did not move from its position," seemed to "fit very tight inside the connector," and you had to use a hook to remove it, it doesn't necessarily mean that the o-ring was positioned correctly. You need to make sure that the o-ring was positioned correctly. The only way to make sure of this is to follow the installation instructions completely. Hopefully a good reg tech at your LDS did the work for you. If that technician has ever overhauled a DIN reg, then he should know enough to position that inner o-ring properly.

Another troubleshooting procedure you can try is to find someone who has a fully functioning Atomic first stage in DIN configuration that uses the same DIN connector as yours. Borrow his DIN connector and install it on your first stage. If everything works properly, then, yes, you will probably need to purchase a new DIN connector. The reg tech will probably advise you to purchase the Yoke to DIN conversion kit for about $90 USD. This kit probably includes the DIN handwheel, threaded DIN connector, air filter, washer, and necessary o-rings. Alternatively, you could just order the yoke connector piece and dive it like that. Not a big deal really.

Please give us an update with how your troubleshooting/repairs are coming. Good luck with everything.

 

[guswid]

Hello a22shady, thanks for the dealer information. At the moment I still waiting from Waikiki Dive Centre in Singapore about their stock. I prefer to buy from closest dealer from Indonesia as it will reduce the shipping cost.

@Bubbletrubble: Thx a lot, I will update the progress when I receive the part.

 

[Scared Silly]

It is damn near impossible to break a DIN connector as it is a solid piece of metal with a hole through it. So if you are getting a leak it most likely an o-ring no sealing. But there could be thread damage.

After putting the DIN connector back on have you put a little soapy water on the valve to see if the problem is at the valve or at reg din connector interface? This test will immediately give you a clue as to where the leak is at. My guess would be between the reg and valve.

What happens if you use a DIN-to-Yoke adapter? Still get a leak??

All that aside, look very closely at the threads, especially on the hand wheel (the thingy you turn to mate the reg with the cylinder valve). If you have a thread that is damaged you may think you have screwed the DIN fully into valve but not quite. As such, the o-ring will not seat fully.

Today, after putting a plug back into a pro-valve (a valve that can be DIN or yoke) I kept getting a leak I checked both o-rings screwed it back in and it still leaked. I looked carefully and noticed that it was not fully seated when compared to another valve but yet was "tight" After a close inspection I noticed that one of the last threads was slightly damaged. I torqued the plug a bit more and the oring seated.