Atomic 1st stage sealing is getting expensive

[eelnoraa]

As the price for cystolube increase, sealing Atomic 1st stage has become so expansive. Since I don't think I will ever dive below 40F, I have decided to ditch the seal.

My question is why Atomic uses such a expansive material for seal. The environmental champer don't even see the breathing gas, well unless there is a leak. And being titanium, it is NOT supposed to be used for > 40% anyway, so why crystoclube instead of other less expansive alternative.

 

[beanojones]

The only thing I thought when Atomic started to go this way is there is commitment to an idea (flow through pistons are the best design choice), and there is dogmatic attachment to preconceptions (Only a flow through piston should ever be used).

I love Atomic regs, and I have a bunch of them, but for corrosion/temperature protection, I'll go with an environmentally sealed diaphragm anyday. But I'll never dive anywhere colder than 70 degrees, so really I am only thinking about corrosion anyway which means just titanium would solve the problem. If I could afford titanium first stages, I would use them (and not put the Christolube in them). I certainly have seen the benefit of titanium second stages not crap out under heavy tropical use in the way chromed brass, or even Atomic's own Zirconium, craps out in those same conditions.

In terms of whether, say, silicone would wander into the other side, conceivably the big wiper Oring on the piston could pick it up and move it to the breathing gas side. But that's just the LP side anyway.
(Note: I am stupid, see Scared Silly below correcting me about the shaft O-ring as well.)

My guess is that since an Atomic first stage is the only one to actually burst into flames when using nitrox, they are being very very careful.

 

[Scared Silly]

There are two o-rings - one on either side of the ambient chamber. The one attached to the piston which on the LP side but then there is the HP o-ring which the shaft slides about which is on the HP side.

As for why O2 compatible lube in the ambient chamber. Because that is what is being used through out the regulator for lube. So no chance of cross mixing.

Do you really need it sealed? Given the conditions you are describing - no. I have my M1 sealed as they are for deco gas (i.e 100 O2%) and my TiX regs. All others are not sealed and I have used them without issue in low 40F water.

That said if you are ditching the seal make sure you swap out the environmental seal and replace it with the trim ring (01-0023-00) that has holes in it. That was the ambient chamber will fill and drain properly.

 

[beanojones]

Whoops, you are correct sir! Of course there is the HP shaft O-ring, which would allow silicone to wander right to the HP seat.

Can you not just leave the environmental seal (the rubber ring) off? I mean for other than cosmetic reasons.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

I have my M1 sealed as they are for deco gas (i.e 100 O2%)

Just curious, why would sealing be beneficial for higher O2%s? I'm running a sealed M1 for my 80% mix now, but had planned to leave it unsealed (though still O2 clean) when it was up for service next.

 

[eelnoraa]

trim ring (01-0023-00) will cost $2. Christolube is like $50 a tube, and filling the ambient chamber seem to take most of the tube. I estimated a $40 cost.

Whoops, you are correct sir! Of course there is the HP shaft O-ring, which would allow silicone to wander right to the HP seat.

Can you not just leave the environmental seal (the rubber ring) off? I mean for other than cosmetic reasons.

So by the same logic, christolube will also wander onto HP seat. If not >40%, is there any reason why silicone on HP seat bad, but christolube on HP seat OK?

 

[Scared Silly]

Can you not just leave the environmental seal (the rubber ring) off? I mean for other than cosmetic reasons.

If you leave it off the reg will not match the spiffy cap on the top and be out of balance.

Just curious, why would sealing be beneficial for higher O2%s? I'm running a sealed M1 for my 80% mix now, but had planned to leave it unsealed (though still O2 clean) when it was up for service next.

Just to keep any impurities that may come from the water from having any chance from entering either chamber. The chances are slim but I would prefer to hedge my bets when running high percentages of O2.

trim ring (01-0023-00) will cost $2. Christolube is like $50 a tube, and filling the ambient chamber seem to take most of the tube. I estimated a $40 cost.

Do some searching I can usually find it for under $30 for a 2oz tube or so and figure you will use 1/2 - 2/3. It is a mess but using the packing tool helps. But a bunch gets left in the tool.

So by the same logic, christolube will also wander onto HP seat. If not >40%, is there any reason why silicone on HP seat bad, but christolube on HP seat OK?

The industry standard for NITROX is to use an oxygen compatible lubricant. Silicone is not considered O2 compatible.

 

[eelnoraa]

It seems christolube packing is needed everytime I open the 1st stage, even it is just for small adjustment, or any reason other reasons. Yeah, I know I have only two choices, seal it or ditch the seal. I am ordering the trim boot now. I will see how it works in Monterey without the seal. If I really have issue, I will then spend the $40 on chrstolub.

 

[Scared Silly]

It seems christolube packing is needed everytime I open the 1st stage, even it is just for small adjustment, or any reason other reasons. Yeah, I know I have only two choices, seal it or ditch the seal. I am ordering the trim boot now. I will see how it works in Monterey without the seal. If I really have issue, I will then spend the $40 on chrstolub.

If the service is done right there is no need to open it up. When I do my service I do all of the service sans filling the chamber. I.e. get the IP set correctly, break-in the seat etc. Then I open do the packing.

As for diving in Monterey you should have no problem. I dove mine there and Point Lobos sans issues.

 

[Ouvea]

Hi Aaron:

I have the Atomic Z2 and have taken it to 100 feet. Never had any problems. Never had any contamination or malfunction of any sort. It bothered me that Atomic set the IP at the very bottom range of the specification. Installed a few shims to get it at mid-point. Didn't see anything of concern on the spring, piston or chamber when I took it apart. With proper care, this should pose a concern.

O.