Ascent Rates (How to..?)

[Diver0001]

Well skilled divers don't have to kick on ascent.

I suspect the op is a rookie diver, which says to me that we shouldn't be telling him what he'll be able to do in 10 years.... we should be telling him what to do now in order to get a grip on his process.

I get your point though and you're totally right. I don't even think about ascending anymore. When I first got into technical diving I was amazed to be confronted with how sloppy my ascents were... but I've worked hard on it over the last 10 years or so and at this point at most I think "up" and I go up, almost as if some external force is following my thought command.

Some people say there are four broad phases to learning and different needs for the "student" at each phase.

1) unconsciously incompetent: (you don't know what you don't know). At this stage you need to be made aware of what you are doing and why and be taught step by step how to achieve it. Sound familiar? that's how all diving classes are given.
2) consciously incompetent: (you know what you don't know). This important step is when the student has a lot of questions and needs time to experiment but still needs a fair amount of directive instruction to progress.
3) consciously competent: (You know what you know). Aside from this being the profile of most cyber divers, it's also the phase where you actually can let go (a bit) of WHAT you're doing and think about the HOW. You have grown beyond your training. It's the phase where most people develop their own style. As a teacher you no longer "direct" the student so much as "coach" them.... in other words, you show them the road and it's up to them if they decide to walk it.
4) unconsciously competent: (you don't know what you know). Skills have become a habit. You think "up" and you go up. There's no real conscious effort involved in performing the skill. The body, the mind, the objective... it's all in sync. routine. an instinct. People who reach this level (and in diving there are many) are masters *at that one thing*. People who reach this level and can clearly and patiently explain to others how to move ahead and get to that level themselves are generally considered outstanding teachers.

Which begs the question, really..... can you become an outstanding teacher if you haven't reached the 4th level of competency?

In my opinion, yes, but based on other talents. An old friend of mine was, in his 3rd-4th year of his bachelors, able to explain certain programming concepts *SO* clearly that when you listened to him you would think, "how is it possible that I never understood this before...". He was so good at it that he gave workshops. Faculty members even acknowledged his results and (at least those who cared about their students) were supportive and positive of his workshops.

Was he a level 4 programmer? no. He was a level 3 programmer, but an outstanding communicator and able to structure his thoughts in a way that just "plugged in" to most listeners.

Guess what he became? A guru computer programmer? No. A high-school computer science teacher, and a very successful one.

.... where the heck was I going with that? oh yeah, to suggest considering more what the OP needed to hear as opposed to tell him what he could ultimately achieve.

R..

 

[volvorules]

This thread has great tips, I have struggled with keeping my ascents slow enough. Not sure why most divers I see on a safety stop, as well as on ascent are vertical, but I guess I need to stop following them! Fortunately I leave for Cozumel tomorrow, so I can practice ascents in a horizontal position.

 

[Doppler]

This thread has great tips, I have struggled with keeping my ascents slow enough. Not sure why most divers I see on a safety stop, as well as on ascent are vertical, but I guess I need to stop following them! Fortunately I leave for Cozumel tomorrow, so I can practice ascents in a horizontal position.

When you think about the process, water offers the most resistance to a diver's vertical movement through the water column when she/he offers the greatest surface area... hence, horizontal trim.

 

[KeithG]

One other thing to think about: not all ascents are purely vertical. You may be in the situation where you combine your ascent with "getting to the exit point". In these cases you will be swimming as you ascend. So you will be horizontal and actively swimming.

A typical example would be the case where you are diving a live aboard and have come back to the boat via the anchor mooring. You still have several 100 meters to swim to reach the boat ladders. Combining this swim with your ascent presents a different situation. Not sure if you will find it easier or harder to maintain your ascent rate.

In these situations I tend to keep close watch on my depth via my computer since I sometimes have the tendency to "swim down". Which really does not help to achieve my objective.

My favourite ascent variation I call "the bonaire". I start my ascent about half way through the dive and gradually work my way up the slope into 12 foot waters where I spend an extended "safety" stop looking for small things. The dive ends at about 7 feet deep when we reach the foot of the dock ladder.

I understand the OP was asking primarily about open water free ascents, but thought it was worthwhile to mention there are other possibilities.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

I have only one thing to add to this excellent discussion. Ascent rates need to be controlled throughout the dive, not just at its conclusion. Many dives have variable depths, and in some places it is not uncommon to have depth vary 20 feet or more in and "up and over" route moving between ridges, or even ascending to observe a coral head or rock formation. Remember to apply the safe ascent rates through the dive. I observe divers to be much less attentive to such rates "mid dive " then when on a final ascent. Also, the ascent after a safety stop is often done too rapidly. Follow the 30 feet per minute rule at all times.
DivemasterDennis

 

[Edward3c]

One thing that I think seems to be glossed over is ascent rates, my RDP says 60 and that's what my PADI instructor reinforced but I've read people with ascent rates as low as 10fpm and my curiousity is how is that physically achievable? Even with the best buoyancy it would seem like if you performed any movement you would exceed that very quickly. Does one have to take frequent breaks from a very slow kick to achieve something this slow? How does that work?

Ideally I think achieving 30/40 is something that I'd like to adopt on my deeper and more time-sensitive dives but I'm wondering if there's any other way rather than trial and error staring at a dive computer. My instructor said the smallest bubbles from a diver exhaling move at around 60fpm, for example and not to exceed those.

BSAC run Buoyancy & Trim Workshops where students learn to hold their depth:

• On descent, at 6m for 1 minute and 1/1.5m off the bottom for 2 minutes.
• On ascent, at 12, 9, 6, 5, 4, 3 and 2 meters for 2 minutes at each and then 1m for 30 seconds.

Grading is:

• +/- 2m Bronze (Ocean Diver)
• +/- 1m Silver (Sports Diver)
• +/- 0.5m Gold (Dive Leader)
• +/- 0.3m Black (Advanced or Technical)

These workshops are open to any of our members following completion of elementary training.

Kind regards

 

[TSandM]

most novice divers would struggle to believe what level of control isachievable if you put your mind, determination and patience towards refining and developing that ability

So totally true, it was worth repeating!

To the OP: You've gotten a lot of good tips here on how to time an ascent. Here's the tip I got from Jonnythan, here on ScubaBoard, when I was trying to learn to do this -- If you are hovering and horizontal, take a deep breath and breathe shallowly with your lungs full for a few seconds (do NOT hold your breath while ascending!). When you start to go up, exhale. If you stop rising, then fill your lungs again and repeat the process. If you don't stop when you exhale, then VENT something (BC or drysuit, if you are using one) until you do stop. This is an excellent exercise for learning how to stay close to neutral while moving upward in the water column. It will likely actually give you an ascent rate that is slower than you want, so don't start practicing with this on the way up from a 90 foot dive! But if you can do this nicely, you can control your ascents very well.

 

[DevonDiver]

The other thing to add is weighting. Excess weight equates to excess air in your BCD. Excess air in your BCD exaggerates the impact of air expansion on ascent (Boyle's Law). It's so much hard to control a graceful, constant ascent - especially using lung volume - when you've got liters of gas billowing in your BCD bladder...

 

[Ste Wart]

One thing that I think seems to be glossed over is ascent rates, my RDP says 60 and that's what my PADI instructor reinforced but I've read people with ascent rates as low as 10fpm and my curiousity is how is that physically achievable? Even with the best buoyancy it would seem like if you performed any movement you would exceed that very quickly. Does one have to take frequent breaks from a very slow kick to achieve something this slow? How does that work?

Your RDP doesn't really say 60fpm/ 18mpm. What is says is that, in testing, the RDP participants were able to ascend at those rates with those NDL times without decompression sickness. However since neither you or I or anyone else I've met was involved in those trials it is safer to err on the side of caution.

 

[261311]

It works exactly how you think it does. you take breaks.

Simple enough, I was wondering if it was something that I wasn't able to achieve by some super-human slow motion movement or if it was a more obvious thing. Sadly sometimes the most obvious solutions feel like the most distant, it sounded more "constant" given the goal and term (pending your desired speed of course).