As 911 approaches.. how have you changed ?

[Phoenix]

I think the USA is an easy target for the people to bash... and now to attack. We have a freedom found nowhere else in the world. We have diversity like nowhere else in the world

Hmm, no offense to any americans here, I sympathise with all of you for the troubles of Sept 11th, and I lost a number of friends and ex-collegues myself, who worked in the towers, so perhaps I have a rare outside perception

In regards to that above quote, it really is the type of quote that americans seem to throw around that bugs the hell out me of, what makes you any more "free" than Britain? what makes you any more "diverse" than germany? perhaps 200 years ago this may have been the case, but I'm not going into 200 year old british politics to proove that one wrong too
America does not mean the entire western 3rd world, however the western world experiances the same freedoms and diversities as america, has less of the racism and right winged crap, less of the government vigilance and conspircy, and yet you claim to have the most freedoms? hmm, sorry thats just something that gets to me having Lived there, Lived here, and having american friends on both sides of the atlantic

The way the world percieves the US is not the same way the US percieves the US, most americans outside america really start to understand why the world doesnt like you much (thats a general term coz lots of us do), the news out is totally different to the news over there, you really do need to actually see it to believe it, and when you do you start to realise how arrogant the US comes off as to the rest of the world. because of such reasons I must say ravipoo has a point, and has expressed it in a manner that shouldn't offend anyone, certain comments may of touched a nerve, the whole "victims familys" was a bit harsh to say the least, I also was a firm believer that the towers should be rebuilt, bigger and bolder than the ones before, a great sign that america can not only recover, but become stronger from the actions of such weak minded individuals, perhaps building them in the same spot would not be the greatest ideas, but saying that perhaps a more fitting memorial could be placed somewhere close by? It's really not for me to say, I have not yet had the chance to visit ground zero, but I will be paying my respects at the embassy next week along with a few others I assume.

There is a fine line between patriotism and arrogance, and what the americans inside america may deem patriotism, the rest of the world sees as arrogant, you can be patriotic without saying "we are the greatest, we can kick anyones asses", this may well be true (although it has yet to be proven) but it doesnt need to be repeated every week.

Americans are one of the most patriotic people I have seen, and most of them do it without using that attitude, no where else have I seen people so proud in there country, so proud in its ideals and its history, I think thats a great thing, if only the english spent as much time caring about thier heritage I might be a bit more proud of them

September 11th 2001 shook us all, and changed us all in many ways, those that experianced it first hand were effected differently than others, but everyone was effected one way or another, everyone feels different and everyone has differnet nerves hit by different comments, raviepoo, i sympathise with your comments and understand them fully, I also see how they may of really got to some people, fair do's to you all, your all entitled to an opinion, lets just hope that such and event never takes place again (wishful thinking?) and lets hope america realises its more likely to show the world its strong and brave not by sending the largest navy in the world to take on a 2nd world underdeveloped country, but by showing the world it can rise up from the ashes, recover from the troubles, and move forward as a more understanding, and more united states of america.

 

[Natasha]

I must say, this thread has taken turns I didn't expect it to take. But that's OK. That is what this board is about. Say what you feel. As long as it's respectful to other people reading it.
I think Raviepoo is a woman. Am I wrong?

 

[Dee]

Natasha once bubbled...
..... I think Raviepoo is a woman. Am I wrong?

Yes, she is. I edited my post to correct my faux pas.

 

[TCDiver1]

I think 911 helped us all focus on what was truly important. Family! Arguments about politics, money, religon, etc. became less important. What a great thing! Too bad it took a tragety like 911 for that to happen.

And don't buy into a Media bias about Americans. We are far from perfect to be sure. Most of us are patriotic with out being arrogant, most of us glady serve our country because we feel it represents something larger than just our own individuality. Yeah, we are proud and not afraid to say so but the ugly American abroad is hardly the typical American IMO. Most of us just work hard to take care of our families just like the rest of you.
Think what you want, and I admit we are not perfect, but IMO much of the hatred of the US is spawned out of jealousy of what we have built for ourselves in this country. Please show me a country that has done more for the world to promote the ideal of freedom. That is something to be proud of i believe!

For those of you who don't know or remember what 10-23-83 means, it was the day 241 military personnel (mainly Marines) were blown up in their sleep, while taking part in a PEACE mission in Beruit. No where near the death toll or tragety as 911 but an equally heinous act. I'm not trying to compare the two incidents only reminding everyone what Jarhead was talking about. Thanks for the service to your country Jarhead and i for one am glad your here posting on this board and not one of the ones that was murdered in your sleep.

 

[The Chairman]

Without a doubt, most Americans have a hard time understanding the jealousy and hatred directed towards us, our homeland and our flag. Japan thought we were a "paper tiger" while others brand us as "infidels", "the big Satan" and the like. They like us even less because we are powerful and are not afraid to show that from time to time.

Although I am an American citizen, I was not born here. I came from a third world country where crime lords and poverty have taken a huge toll. I don't go back since I "look" american, and they truly hate me. I have been shot at in my home country just because I didn't "fit in".

On the other hand, I too have to shake my head and wonder why sometimes Americans just don't get it. We do our best for others only to have things blow up in our faces. We mean well, but are rarely given the credit for trying to make a diference. Sure, we have our bigots, our war mongers and the like. But the average Joe (or Josette) really wants to live long enough to be a problem to their kids and to grab a little of that American Pie and share it with their friends. Hey we even try to send some of it overseas... and this seems to be where the problem starts.

While I am not sure what the answer IS, I do know that we can not afford to be jingoistic or isolationist. We are a part of this global community and we need to try to do our best... even when others twist what we do or say. Not because we want to poison their cultures and make everyplace look like Disney Land... no because HELPING OTHERS IS THE AMERICAN WAY. It's what we do best and no matter how others may misconstrue our intentions, we will always be there when catastrophe strikes.

As for blowing up Baghdad... that really isn't our style. As much as I support our troops where ever they may be, I do not feel we need to invade Iraq just to salvage a bit of national pride. The first Bush blew our best chance to take out Sadamn... our bad. He might be a pimple on our butt, but we really have no right to invade their country just 'cause we don't like who they have in power. BTW, did you realise that Baghdad is built on top of Babylon??? Hmnnnn... maybe it's the soil or something!

As for devining the motives of those posting on this subject... don't even try. We all tend to adopt a "more patriotic than thou" attitude. The freedom to disagree with our government is probably more cherished than even our freedom to talk about it. Having an opposing opinion does not make you a pariah... it makes you an American. While we can disagree with what another has to say, lets at least do it in a way that is honorable. Ad hominem attacks are not conducive to a free exchange of ideas. Lets leave the mudslinging to the politicians... it's what THEY do best!!!

 

[Rick Murchison]

raviepoo once bubbled...
It looks as if we will confirm the arab world's worst assumptions about us by unilaterally declaring war on Iraq. All the foreign goodwill that flowed in our direction right after September 11 has evaporated due to the behaviour of the Texas Mafia, and the American idea that we are the world's cops. We are, in fact, the world's bullies and scoff laws. Although I don't approve of Al Qaeda's actions, I DO understand why they hate us.

I do believe that is the most ill informed, inaccurate, ignorant head-in-the-sand piece of pure hogwash clap-trap I've read in quite a while.
It rivals Neville Chamberlain, 1938.
Rick

 

[danceswithoctopus]

I've noticed there are a lot of tattered American Flags scattered about beside the roads. My conclusion therefore is that respect for the American Flag has declined since 9/11. Remarkably similar to the decilne of the early 90's during the Gulf War . . .

If you're gonna wave it, do it with proper respect!

That's my 2

 

[Rick L]

I am sorry that your father died!!
But you cant compare a accident to the murder of 3000 people!!!
As americans I think most of us have died a little bit that day I did!!! Most of us dont have any power to change anything here or anywhere!! But this attack was not on our armed forces but on us (the regular joes)I could not sleep last night thats how much this bothered me. I am just a blue coller guy who has worked since I was 14. If you see mistakes in my spelling and paragraphs
its because I didnt have the advantage of collage(I was married at 18 and was supporting a child! and Im still married to the same woman! I have paid my dues my whole life. What is it that I and people like me have done to osama and his like!!!!

Sorry but it realy hurts!!
Rick L

 

[scubamax]

Pheonix Wrote:

what makes you any more "free" than Britain? what makes you any more "diverse" than germany? perhaps 200 years ago this may have been the case, but I'm not going into 200 year old british politics to proove that one wrong too

Well, there are a few but important differences in freedom between UK and U. S. One of the biggest is freedom of the press and the first amendment. In the UK, certain books and other publications can be banned if they are, in the eyes of the government or the monarchy, inappropriate. Not so in the U. S...

Freedom to bear arms (and to arm bears!)...which can create a great divide in opinions, but a freedom nevertheless.

Church and State separation: Freedom from a state sponsored faith...you don't see a "Church of America" as such, do you?

I could go on, but I have proven my point. Not that I have anything at all against the UK, its people and the like...actually I have been described as a "severe Anglophile" by my mates. But do want to say that the level of freedom in the U. S., does make it different than the UK in some major ways.

Diversity: U. S. vs. Germany. Germany, per the CIA factbook:

Ethnic Makeup:
German 91.5%, Turkish 2.4%, other 6.1% (made up largely of Serbo-Croatian, Italian, Russian, Greek, Polish, Spanish)

Languages: German

U. S. Per the same source: white 83.5%, black 12.4%, Asian 3.3%, Amerindian 0.8% (1992)

Languages: English, Spanish (spoken by a sizable minority
(emphasis added).

Actually, one could argue that the UK is probably more diverse than Germany, but we are really getting off track.

Again, not saying one place is better than another, but over the past 100 years the diversity of America has gone hand in hand with its freedoms...

Scubamax

 

[Phoenix]

Lol
well I didn't want to use Britain in both examples as I would seem a bit full of myself there, and notice the difference in your examples that make them a bit, hmm, un comparable

for the US you have split Whites, Blacks, Asians, Etc

but for Germany you have Germans, Turks, etc
thats not so say there are no Black and Asian people born and bred as germans, your compariong nationality with ethnic origin, a tad different

on another note, dont confuse britain and its history and heritage with what actually goes on here, we are a constitutional monarchy, but a democracy none the less, the queen may be the "head of the church of england" but the queen has very little if any say in how the country is run, the church and the government are entirley seperate (again lets not confuse the royal family with the elected government)

Yes we dont carry guns, you guys do, a freedom that has evidently caused you more trouble than good over the last few years, ofcourse it may come in useful if you ever have to make use of the second ammendments primary aim (unlikley with the size of the US military)

Thirdly, yes we can have certain publications banned / blocked etc, most if not all of these are ones that have a national security impact, ex spys writing stuff, military secrets, etc etc, the difference between the UK and the US is that we publicly admit we will ban them, you guys get rid of them before anyone knows they exist! (call me a conspiricy theorist but its one thing we all know happens)
The lengths americas government goes to maintain its national security are well documented and renowned, but anyway
certain things like that really dont infringe on our daily liberties and freedoms, in either of our countries, they are mearly subjects laid down in paper, i'm sure you will find both our countrys infringe thier own laws, international laws, and their own constitutions from time to time, thats the way governments work

and yes england would of been a better example of diversity

Anglophile? hmm, im getting to that point
*pays another visit to the australian embassy*