Check out the article on CDNN on Force Fins forcing Rodales to pay for alleged equipment ratings scam.
http://www.cdnn.info/industry/i031113/i031113.html
http://www.cdnn.info/industry/i031113/i031113.html
Article on Rodales gear review scams
- Thread starter backinthewater
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
Here is a good discussion on that subject from the rodales message board archives, in 2001.
http://dive.scubadiving.com/talk/read.php?f=1&i=214966&t=214966
"And I'm happy to restate for the 15th time ScubaLab's gear acquistion policy: We solicit ALL manufacturers for EVERY review of the gear category we are testing. Of those who refuse to send us items for reviews, we purchase their gear on the open market when that gear is (1) for recreational divers; (2) is in national distribution and (3) is a piece of gear our readers should know about.
-Exec Ed."
http://dive.scubadiving.com/talk/read.php?f=1&i=214966&t=214966
"And I'm happy to restate for the 15th time ScubaLab's gear acquistion policy: We solicit ALL manufacturers for EVERY review of the gear category we are testing. Of those who refuse to send us items for reviews, we purchase their gear on the open market when that gear is (1) for recreational divers; (2) is in national distribution and (3) is a piece of gear our readers should know about.
-Exec Ed."
chrpai
Contributor
Dont you love when CDNN posts a link to an "independant gear review lab" and then doesn't disclose that they are affiliated with that lab?
I don't trust Rodales, but I sure as heck don't trust CDNN.
I don't trust Rodales, but I sure as heck don't trust CDNN.
One could also question what determines national distribution. When I was interested in buying Force Fins (before I had a chance to try them--ugh, what stinkers they were once I got hold of a pair) I could not find a Dive Shop in MO that carried them, and Force Fins refused to sell them direct to me on-line!
One local dive shop told me they refused to carry them because Force Fins would not provide just 1 pair of loaners for their instructors to try out before deciding if they were worth selling. To be a dealer they would have to first place a substantial order of various sizes. I understand Force Fins' position perfectly having had a chance to dive them myself. Perhaps if you had to buy them first you would make yourself learn to like them since the money was spent.
theskull
One local dive shop told me they refused to carry them because Force Fins would not provide just 1 pair of loaners for their instructors to try out before deciding if they were worth selling. To be a dealer they would have to first place a substantial order of various sizes. I understand Force Fins' position perfectly having had a chance to dive them myself. Perhaps if you had to buy them first you would make yourself learn to like them since the money was spent.
theskull
ScubaRon
Contributor
- Messages
- 577
- Reaction score
- 4
It contains no facts, no verifiable information, just plain gossip about a competitor. I never had a high opinion of CDNN in the first place, but they just sunk 140' deeper on my charts.
As for Rodales testing: their methodologies are usually sound. It is virtually impossible for anyone to test all available brands and models of diving gear and I find it understandable that Rodales gives some priority to their own customers in the selection of which types to test. Every information source - even Scubaboard - has its own bias. As long as you keep that in mind - and use multiple sources for input - you can still get good information out of reviews like Rodales'.
ScubaRon
As for Rodales testing: their methodologies are usually sound. It is virtually impossible for anyone to test all available brands and models of diving gear and I find it understandable that Rodales gives some priority to their own customers in the selection of which types to test. Every information source - even Scubaboard - has its own bias. As long as you keep that in mind - and use multiple sources for input - you can still get good information out of reviews like Rodales'.
ScubaRon
Does anyone know why they didn't/don't test ScubaPro and Sherwood regs then?
Ben
cyklon_300
Contributor
Thanks, I checked out the thread, any ideas on Sherwood though?
Ben
Ben
While I admit I do read Rodale's Tester's Lab just to see what is up with gear, there have been WAY too many instances where they are too inconsistant to be taken seriously.
Over the past 10 years they have given either a Tester's Choice (okay, this I can swallow... many people are clueless), a "Best of the Best" rating to or reported that"
LOVED one major manufacturer's regs that went 100% unchanged in the next season, and were given a TERRIBLE rating in that next season.
A BCD's power inflator on a mail ordered bcd was "Dangerous at any depth". This bcd was made by one of the top bcd OEM's at the time, who also manufactured for Scubapro, Genesis and Sherwood, among a few others, and used that same power inflator on 1/4 of the bcd's on the market that season. 2 of which recieved one of the 2 favorable ratings and of course never said a word about that "dangerous at any depth" inflator. (I might add that in that particular writing they were bashing mail ordered gear in any form)
Gave a Tester's Choice to a fin that was "New" that season for an off-brand manufacturer, while over the previous years that the EXACT same fin was on the market by some of the more main stream companies, was never even given a remotely "average" rating.
And even now, in this current year there is a manufacturer with a computer in their catalog being promoted as their "New for 2003" computer and was given Rodale's Tester's Choice Award that is 100% identical to a computer that another manufacturer last had in their catalog in 2000. I'm holding one in my hand right now and comparing it to the Tusa Web site as I write this. The technology wasn't new in 2000 and Rodale's HATED the computer then. I know "Retro" is in, but that's just down right insane.
And these are just a few examples...
So, all in all, I guess what I'm getting at is take what you read with a grain of salt. They may give good info on what you see in the magazine, although not much different than you can get from reading a manufacturer's catalog, but as far as what they consider is the "Best" for what ever reason? Even they admit their results aren't scientific and are just some other diver's sometimes misguided opinions.
Over the past 10 years they have given either a Tester's Choice (okay, this I can swallow... many people are clueless), a "Best of the Best" rating to or reported that"
LOVED one major manufacturer's regs that went 100% unchanged in the next season, and were given a TERRIBLE rating in that next season.
A BCD's power inflator on a mail ordered bcd was "Dangerous at any depth". This bcd was made by one of the top bcd OEM's at the time, who also manufactured for Scubapro, Genesis and Sherwood, among a few others, and used that same power inflator on 1/4 of the bcd's on the market that season. 2 of which recieved one of the 2 favorable ratings and of course never said a word about that "dangerous at any depth" inflator. (I might add that in that particular writing they were bashing mail ordered gear in any form)
Gave a Tester's Choice to a fin that was "New" that season for an off-brand manufacturer, while over the previous years that the EXACT same fin was on the market by some of the more main stream companies, was never even given a remotely "average" rating.
And even now, in this current year there is a manufacturer with a computer in their catalog being promoted as their "New for 2003" computer and was given Rodale's Tester's Choice Award that is 100% identical to a computer that another manufacturer last had in their catalog in 2000. I'm holding one in my hand right now and comparing it to the Tusa Web site as I write this. The technology wasn't new in 2000 and Rodale's HATED the computer then. I know "Retro" is in, but that's just down right insane.
And these are just a few examples...
So, all in all, I guess what I'm getting at is take what you read with a grain of salt. They may give good info on what you see in the magazine, although not much different than you can get from reading a manufacturer's catalog, but as far as what they consider is the "Best" for what ever reason? Even they admit their results aren't scientific and are just some other diver's sometimes misguided opinions.
shrwdtech
Contributor
Sherwood's new regs weren't done in time to be used in Rodale's tests for this season. In previous years our regs haven't changed, so there really wasn't a huge reason to have the regs tested again.
Look for them to get looked at in the future as we will have some design changes due to be released over the Winter.
Scubapro has their own issues with Rodale's rather similar in nature to H2o's comments above. They have mainly to do with inconsistancies in the process. As I recall, Scubapro requested to not be tested or included until further notice, but that may not be totally accurate.
Look for them to get looked at in the future as we will have some design changes due to be released over the Winter.
Scubapro has their own issues with Rodale's rather similar in nature to H2o's comments above. They have mainly to do with inconsistancies in the process. As I recall, Scubapro requested to not be tested or included until further notice, but that may not be totally accurate.
Similar threads
