Aren't "100" Dives enough!?!

[LoCz]

Hmmm what do you mean by very little practical experience?
and how else could you learn but in a controlled environment.

:goofy:

 

[Iguana Don]

LoCz,
You have, as many people do an idea that cavern and cave diving are the same. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME. NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM.
PADI does not have a cave course. And IMHO and others also, don't even think about caves until you have matured as an open water diver. This is a whole new ball of wax.
Less than 1% of the diving population is suited for cave diving. As for the instructor, if he doesn't have 200+ cave dives alone, then he isn't qualified to teach it.

Which brings me to another point about the number of dives.
It may not be the number of dives that you have logged, but as was said before the events that happened in those dives. Your diving maturity will come in time, why rush it, take time and smell the coral. This is a pleasure sport, take pleasure in it. Remember in diving "You don't have to do it". Nobody is pushing you or ever will or else you will end up like the Rouses'.

Don

 

[JC]

My wife and I both took up diving just under 2 years ago. Since qualifying PADI Advanced, we have dived from Micronesia to the Caribbean and points in between . We have 150 dives since then and are still on the learning curve. There is always something new that can come up and "grab you", if you are not always aware that the sea is indeed a hostile environment. We get some stick from some divers over our " check and check again" approach to our equipment prior to going over the side, but, it pays dividends when you see what happens when folks take their kit for granted and suddenly find a problem at depth. Well, maybe, this is just a Scottish thing looking to being prepared for the nasty surprise }

 

[Mario S Caner]

JC,
Your approach to diving is definitely commendable. It sounds like you and your wife are the model diver, most should aspire to be like. I too beleive that the majority of dive accidents happen because of avoidable reasons. Not diving with the proper gear, not doing proper buddy checks, not communicationg with their buddy during the dive etc. It's a shame, but as long as some wreckless divers continue to goof around, they will continue to become statistics.

Mario

 

[DameDykker]

Good for you.

I also find that the more i dive the less I take for granted. My first dives in the Red Sea just after OW cert. was a laugh. No boyancy control and I didn't ask any question on safety and most of the gear was rented.

The last dives with an organised outfit (2 days on GBR) I asked all the questions, braught all my own gear and was checking everything - including my body - all the time.

I know I can only relay om me having my best interest in mind.

As far as I can see this atitude increases with the number of dives. And as I'm arranging trips for my club the responsability is also increasing.

 

[JC]

Ah, that brings back memories ! We did our OW in a water filled quarry: murky and chilly. Straight after, we went to Sharm, and what a fiasco that was. The learning curve was vertical. We had never even had one sea dive, let alone giant strides, drifts etc: "Buouncy Control" was the order of the day. Thank goodness there weren't any kit malfunctions to contend with. Still, the experience was wonderful after the cold and dismal.

 

[DameDykker]

I can ecco that experience. My cert. dives was in a harbour with 0 visibility as soon as us poor students touched the bottom!

The water was 9 deg. C which isn't much when you are in an ill fitting wetsuit with only one covering of the torso. :cold:

That was in October. Then in january we (not the students but some other people) went to the Red See and I had a really warm exsperience and that vertical learning curve. I even finished some of the first dives on the divemasters octopus to give the others some bottom time. I wouldn't do that today.

 

[kdsmithjr]

This subject keeps cropping up all over the place so i thought that i would start a new thread.

I have noticed that a "few" of you have made it known that you dont think a 100 dive minimum is enough in order to become a competent instructor. Can those people explain properly why they feel this.

When i ask someone why i usually get this response " if i had a choice of learning with an experienced diver with 200 dives + then i would choose that diver over someone who only had 100 dives". Well as far as i am concerned i would and will be, looking for an instructor that has a very good ability to explain things in plain english and grinds all aspects of safety into his students. Also i will expect him to continually "push" his students until they are 100% confident in a particular area. This is more important to me than an instructor who has over 200/500 dives, for example. Obviously there are other qualities that an instructor must have but i wont go-on and on.

I intend to be a "hard" instructor when i graduate with my IE and i certainly wouldnt pass anyone who i didnt see fit to dive. I will have had around 30-40 dives all over the British coast before i go-on to Florida to train from AOW right through to the IE. I will endevour to set very high standards for myself as a diver and for my students.

Theres one thing that seems a bit strange to me and that is on the subject of learning and teaching PADI specialities. Before i say this let me make it perfectly clear that i am as yet uncertified as a diver and i have no experience of how rigerous PADI speciality training is. But it seems after you have been taught "cave diving" in 2-3 days that you are then able to teach this type of diving to whomever wants it. On the face of it this doesnt seem to be enough training to me in what is (IMHO) a very hazardous environment. In asking these Q's it will also help me further understand "what" people really want from a good instructor.

What are your Opinions on this guys?!?

I agree with some of what you said. I just did my 100th dive yesterday. I do have an sdi advanced diver card as well. I was OW certified last spring, so I'm just under a year into my diving. Most say I look good in the water and that I am reasonably skilled for the number of dives I have. But I know a diver who has about half my diving experience and that diver is just finishing the DM course. That diver admitted to me that he/she hasn't deployed a sausage yet. I think that making your location known is a very basic skill.
I agree with you that 100 dives may not, ipso facto, make you experienced enough (or be overkill) to be an instructor. The other attributes you named are more important. But, all things being equal, experience does make you better. If in the other attributes you named, two instructors were equal, then the one with 500 dives is a lot better than one with 80 dives. no question.

 

[TMHeimer]

Many varied replies, which is expected with the OP's question. Best one I read said there's no sure answer. You know "Those that can do, those that can't teach". Sometimes true, sometimes not. Some can do both, some neither. Given the choice of taking private trombone lessons from someone who has been a pro 10 years would PROBABLY be better than from one who has for 5 years. Then you hear of the case of a young dive instructor with those 100 dives who is a great TEACHER, being a natural leader around people vs. the old guy with 5,000 dives set in his ways and pretty standoffish. Again, if I had no data on either, I'd go with the oldtimer. Could be wrong. Actual dive experience (in addition to dive teaching experience) takes on much more importance than trombone teaching. You can't die playing the trombone (though there are a couple I know that should have...).

 

[fisheater]

Back from the dead 11 years ago.