Are you a dive snob?

[BTravlin]

I'm a warm water wuss.
My experience level is minimal compared to many.
My dive gear is good but certainly not the best, if there is such a thing.
My air consumption is probably a little above average.
Buoyancy control is pretty good.
Have only dived Caribbean locations.
Still have a lot to learn when it comes to marine life ID.
Still a lot to learn with many aspects of diving.
Don't mind being offered helpful hints.
Don't care if I'm first or last off the boat.
Don't mind diving with new divers.

Nope, don't think I have the right credentials to be a dive snob.

I hope those who have dived with me don't think otherwise.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I had a conversation with my GF last night along these lines. She is also editing a work of mine and many of you remember a few months ago I took a self imposed semi vacation to evaluate my positions and more specifically how I expressed them. I was in a stage of my life where a great many things had just happened and most of them less than good. It was easy to express displeasure or disagree with people, agencies, techniques, etc in less than gentle terms. What she pointed out to me in some of my writing that was done around that time is that some very good messages were getting lost in the delivery. And that the manuscript shows those changes in attitude. As it is a compilation of my essays from the last 2 years or so, plus new materials, the message is better from a less confrontational approach.

In another thread now I have described a training scenario I use that another person has taken issue with yet depite repeated requests has refused to say what they would do or how they actually approach the training. When I apologized to NetDoc and the board for my actions I made a promise that from now on rather than criticize other methods I would do my best to listen. Perhaps disagree, but disagree by stating not what was wrong with their method but in fact state how I conduct my classes and more importantly why I do things the way I do. I don't see that as being a snob. I see that as trusting the reader to be intelligent enough to draw their own conclusion as to which way works better or MIGHT work better for them.

When it comes to diving I will dive with anyone for the most part unless they have demonstrated that they are unsafe or a bad buddy. I also prefer not to dive with those who don;t think they need to learn anything else. THat how they dive is good enough for them. Usually they are the ones though that are bicycling, using the hands as a main method of propulsion, tearing up the bottom, or think that they don't need to work on planning because the DM will do that. My students are not only welcome but strongly encouraged to come on every dive outing I do that is with in their recommended limits and just hang out, swim with the class, etc.

I do have preferences when it comes to equipment and make no bones about that. If someone asks me a question as to why I dive what I do I have the reasons clear and will discuss them. If someone asks me about what they are using and what I think I try not to be overly harsh if there is something I disagree with or don't think is the best choice. And if asked will tell them but not only that I disagree with it but why.

I don't like spare airs. Not because they are junk. As long as they are used for their intended purpose-helicopter ditch escape. But I have the facts on how long they may last, that they can give a false sense of security, and that if you are my buddy on a 100 ft dive there are better choices for back up gas. My opinions and you can take them or leave them.

Other times I see configurations I will prefer to not use or have my buddy use unless they can show me they are proficient in their use should an emergency arise. The dive shop said it was the best is not how I choose or how I train my students to choose gear.

I don;t think any of this makes me a snob.

Cam, if your wife is having issues with the training and diving you're doing now that is very different from some dive buddy having issues. I don't know how old you both are but I do know that when it comes to realtionships there is always time somewhere for outside interests. There is not always time for the realtionship when the outside interests get to be too much for one or the other. 2 years ago I had plans that this year was going to be the one. The one I was able to scrape up 3-4 grand and do the Doria. The training was mapped out, the prep dives, and even most of the money. Guess what? I was not there when they found the bell. Won't be there next year either. Life has way of changing things. My training got derailed by a number of things. I don't regret any of them. I'm starting a new chapter now and it is good. I'm training triple the number of divers I did last year. Diving more, and have a new GF who also dives. Money is tighter due to the economy and I'm focusing on getting out of debt instead of incurring more. And I'm happy. Very happy. Shallow, relaxed dives with someone I feel close to are better than any old 250 ft dive on a scrap heap and the post dive briefings are great! Although if I had 250k in the bank and adv trimix I might take the weekend she'll be gone and hit something big! But what I'm saying is be realistic. What is more important? Your tech dives or those dives with your wife? I bet I know what her answer is. And you know if you do some of those and let her know that those with her mean more, she may have less objections when you do want to go hang on a line for an hour twiddling your thumbs off gassing.

 

[Sas]

HAVE YOU FELT SNUBBED BEFORE?
IF SO WHY? AND WAS IT FAIR OR NOT?
WAS IT INTENTIONAL OR NOT?

I have never 'felt' snubbed but I have, at times, been made fun of for things, in particular my equipment configuration, which I find amusing rather than offensive. A fair few people have been snooty to me thinking I am DIR based on my equipment. And another time I was diving a sinkhole and two divers in single tank rec setups told me and my buddy were going overboard with our twins and drysuits (was a 36m deco dive, temperature of 13C). They were actually quite rude about it, and gave us a lecture about how they didn't want us silting up the place and a bunch of other things. Funnily enough me and my buddy were swimming around, not making any mess and saw this plume of silt coming up from the deep, which was shortly followed by the two divers who'd gone out of their way to lecture us about it So, yea it was probably unfair of them to tell us off in advance about something like this!

I have not been snubbed by any 'technical' (don't like that term so much but hope it conveys my meaning) divers ever. Sometimes on charter boats when I was new and buddy-less, some divers would tell me they would be diving too deep for me to buddy up with them, but they were always very nice about it. I do the same these days if I am asked to pair up with a new buddy-less person but I want do dive deeper, try to be nice about it and find them someone else to dive. A few times no one has wanted to dive with them so I usually suck it up and change my dive plan to suit them.

I can think of one situation were I have come across as snubbing another diver (to my knowledge) and it was when I wanted to go on a diving trip with a buddy and someone else invited himself along. This guy I had vowed never ever to dive with again under any circumstances as he has a bad attitude and is a complete CF underwater. My original buddy said there's no way he wanted this other guy to join us either. Anyway I was very polite about it and basically said he could come if he had his own buddy, but not dive with us as we found it easier to dive as a pair rather than as a group of three. Anyway, he completely stopped talking to me after that!

 

[moodoweewah]

Hi all.
I think the only time I experienced any dive snobbery was in Gozo. My wife had bought me a nice dive watch for my birthday(at the time I didn't own a dive computer). After we had dived I asked the the dive guide what depth we had been to for my log, and a woman who had dived with us made some snippy comment about my nice new dive watch not being able to tell me that.
Other than that I have found the diving community very welcoming, both veterans and novices alike.
I still dive with my watch, and a nice shiny new computer. Hurrah!

 

[fire_diver]

Hi all.
I think the only time I experienced any dive snobbery was in Gozo. My wife had bought me a nice dive watch for my birthday(at the time I didn't own a dive computer). After we had dived I asked the the dive guide what depth we had been to for my log, and a woman who had dived with us made some snippy comment about my nice new dive watch not being able to tell me that.Other than that I have found the diving community very welcoming, both veterans and novices alike.
I still dive with my watch, and a nice shiny new computer. Hurrah!

Tha'ts not "snobbery", that's them trying to tell you you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer for diving without a depth guage. A lot of others wouldn't have been so nice.

 

[SeaHorse81]

have I become so focused on my own dive goals that I have excluded my wife and friends? They feel like I have.

I know my post isn't going to answer your question about being snubbed or not (but for the record, I can't say I have been). When I saw your quote above, I just had to comment. Things I believe to my core (as both a person and as a psychotherapist) to be true:

1. If someone who cares about you feels like you're excluding them, you probably are, regardless of how much you never intended to. For the purposes of this discussion, I'll assume your wife and friends are not over-controlling sorts who demand every instant of your time in order to feel properly attended to.

2. Somebody who loves you and wants you to be happy would never stand in the way of your passion, because they want you to have it and love it. The happier you are, the more fun you are for them to be with. Unless you're having so much fun with your activity that the people who love you don't get to see you much any more. If it's come to that, some soul-searching and re-evaluation of priorities might be in order.

 

[The Chairman]

OK, it was pointed out to me that I kind of, maybe sorta harp on three things...

Spoiler

Good Trim/Buoyancy

Spoiler

No use of the hands to manuever
and...

Spoiler

:nodanglies:

While I do try to approach people on these issues, I don't think I have ever refused to dive with someone because of them.

 

[Dsix36]

Many years ago, while I was still just a novice nitrox diver with very limited experience, I got snubbed by a tech diver. His buddy was still breathing from a regulator after coming onboard after the dive. I asked "why is he breathing from that" and the reply was "he is special, take the class if you want to know". Needless to say, I have never much cared for that person since that day.

Now a few years have passed and I am now diving a rebreather and doing long long deco dives, when the same person comes up and asks me something about my rig. I replied "take the class if you want to know". I felt like I was finally even with him and then it hit me that I was just as big of an arse that he was.

I have made certain to never do it again. I certainly become the "rock star" on some recreational diving boats, but I treat them as equals and answer their questions. Lots of questions last weekend, but a lot of fun to.

I will dive with anyone that wants to dive. I do not care if they are OC or CC, newbies or experienced, male or female, etc. etc. etc.

I had some good mentors/buddies to help me along my way and turnabout is only fair.

So in short - I was a snob to a diver, but learned the error of my ways.

 

[Leejnd]

OK, it was pointed out to me that I kind of, maybe sorta harp on three things...

:nodanglies:

While I do try to approach people on these issues, I don't think I have ever refused to dive with someone because of them.

Can I ask exactly what you mean by danglies? I don't know if you saw my earlier post in this thread, but I was made fun of pretty ruthlessly for having "danglies" on my gear, and referred to quite dismissively as a "dangly diver" because I use a yellow bulb attached to my BC to hold my octo:

If that's what you mean, then can I ask why that would be something you would harp on?

I realize that it is not something that a tech or cave diver would wear, but it seems to me to be a valid choice for a recreational diver. When we went through our OW training and were renting gear, the instructors would shove the octo hose up into an opening in the front of the BC, which didn't seem like a very good solution to me - it was actually pretty difficult to pull out, and I assumed that if someone urgently needed my octo, it probably wasn't a good idea to have it be so difficult to get to. This bulb thing works quite well, I think - it's secure enough that my octo doesn't fall out of it, but it takes very little force to pop it out for use.

I'm hoping that your use of the term "dangly" is not the same as that band of DIR divers that laughed at us "dangly divers" for these types of gear choices.

If what YOU mean by danglies are things that drag along the bottom, damaging delicate reefs and/or silting things up, then I am in agreement with you. I'm hoping that's the case, as opposed to disapproving of things like octo holders that don't conform to more "advanced" gear configurations, because that, to me, is the very definition of "dive snobbery"...and is exactly what I experienced on that boat in Bali that originally turned me off to DIR, as I assumed all DIR divers were a- holes like those guys.

 

[Airleron]

Hubby and I were snubbed at a LDS in Jupiter, FL a few months ago. We were talking about bp/w set ups, and my hubby mentioned he dives DiveRite bp/w. The shop guy said "We don't sell that because DiveRite is crap and I don't like it". They only sell Halcyon. That was it for us. Our usual LDS is FANTASTIC, they don't care if we bring stuff in we bought online, etc. They know our first names and are always happy to see us walk through the door.

As far as other divers, I don't think I've ever been snubbed, and I hope never snubbed anyone. When diving off a boat, I rarely discuss what diving I've done, and usually focus on the other person, where they dive, etc. I particularly love to talk to the newly certified, because their perspective and excitement is contagious. I generally talk to folks about careers, where they live, how far they traveled, etc.