Are the Super Wings too much?

[Dan Gibson]

Replace some of the nitrogen with helium. Do you have to have it spelled out totally for you? Go run the numbers. You might want to consider picking a high helium content. This is in reference to the multiple bottle example. Apparently you have forgotten or ignored that part of the thread.

When I say drag, I mean they tanks will be hanging down out of the slipstream. With less weight (i.e. replace some of the nitrogen with helium), they tanks will start out closer to neutral. This is in reference to stage bottles if you haven't quite picked up on that yet.


Also, you might note that volume is related to pressure. Now try applying that to what everyone knows is the density of water. Yes, that was in the PADI OW manual. Since I know the volume displaced and the density of the water, I can easily figure out the buoyant force. You might want to actually take a physics class since the dive industry has totally failed in teaching you this information.

You keep putting your foot in your mouth. You must be an instructor.

sorry, guess I should explain that the example given by Dan is not tangible in actual diving. first a type helium mix would contain about 30% Helium (the weight difference in the stage would be negligible). His calculations are invalid for the variety of equipment being used (different tanks, different regs.), or even the equipment he is specifically referencing. You get the picture? Also, typically helium would be "back gas" Dan is only mentioning Al80's because that's what he got out of the DIR philosophy. He has missed the boat on the very sound principles of "DIR". For example, there are plenty of dives that call for other size tanks - deep deco dives where a travel gas is useful to minimize deco times - you would probably only need 20 - 30 cuft of a specific mix for a given portion of the dive, so why bring 80?

Your pal's lack of real diving experience with the systems, situations and mixtures he is referring to in his posts is blatantly obvious. I hope he doesn't misslead to many people.

 

[decoeric]

Dan, Why would I want to replace my air with helium? I need to breath from these tanks. This is almost as amuzing as this comment you made earlier in the thread.


Hilarious!

and it just keeps coming...



Boyle's law examines Ideal Gases NOT the mass of a displaced volume of liquid. The property referred to is "Density". By the way, drag does not change if the surface area doesn't change regardless of the mass. Personally I carry nitrox stages the same way I carry trimix stages.

And you are criticising others? Stop it please your killing me :laughing:

Thanks... I was thinking the same thing about Boyles Law. I didn't want to say anything because I am sure I would have gotten that I am not qualified to dive anymore...

 

[The Fresh Prince]

msandler, It's good to see someone with brains show up, every time they ( Dan G ,Micdiver,) show up they start this compitition to see how far they can peg the BS meter. I sometimes wounder how these people made it to adulthood . Could you picture being one of their students or dive buddies?
Now I know what the knife is for. LOL

Nova, are you posting undera pen name? Msandler spews as much hyperbole as you, writes in a similar manner, and uses the same derogatory references. Hmmmmm......makes me think.

 

[jagfish]

Hey Dan
Oddly enough I saw this posted on another thread today, but it seems to apply exceedingly well to the circus that has develped here...I'm taking the advice as well

"Never argue with an idiot (or two). He (they) will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience (which in this case seems to be substantial)".

 

[The Fresh Prince]

[I]My opinion is not wrong because an opinion cannot be wrong, No where in my first post did I say anything other than what I thought would be a better option for him. In fact here is my first post: “In my opinion having a little more lift than you might need right now is very beneficial. I have dual bladder OMS 100lb cells. As your tanks get bigger and you carry more gear, you will want bigger air cells, trust me... Better to buy a little more now even though you may never need it, then to buy less and than buy again somewhere do the road. Super wings are great and the Transpac is an excellent harness. SS is the way to go, but give the wings a serious look and plan for your future diving just a bit...” You guys tore into me for my opinion. I stated that I thought he should go with the bigger wings and SS BP nothing more. My errors may have come into play when we got into the logistics of buoyancy and displacement. I looked back through my PADI open water text and nowhere did I read anything about displacement vs. buoyancy. Good [/I] luck.

Gee DE, maybe you remember the question posed by the thread starter:
"I am about to begin tech training, and I needed to know a little bit of info about a bc setup. I am planning on purchasing the Dive Rite steel back plate and harness, but I can't decide on the wings. I will currently be using my bc with al 80 doubles, but in the future I would like to do some cave diving with pressed steel 104s and some decompression bottles. Obviously the Dive Rite Super Wings would be great for the cave diving, but are they too much for double al 80s? Thanks for your help! (And be nice to me, this is my first post!)"
Then, maybe you will remember your second post:
130's with a 55lb wing??? Dual 130's alone weigh 94lbs empty not counting hardware and a manifold, they are negative 10lbs full but +.75 empty. With stage bottles and possibily a can light you are looking at well over 150lbs of gear? 55lb wings would not even keep you a float with that kind of gear, with out adding a ton of air to your dry suit. To me it seems like a bad plan. Dive Rite recommends at minimum Classic wings with 59lb of lift for "heavy" doubles. Like I said a little more lift is always a better plan, especially if you do any diving that have a surface swim involved the more lift on your back will get your head out of the water better for those swims. Also the SS back plate with possibly a tank weight of some kind and ankle weights would most likely reverse the need to carry a weight belt at all. Which is very nice. When it comes right down to it you are going to buy what you think is best. Everyone in the Tech community is going to tell you something different. Case in point here. Best advice I got was buy the best you can afford, but a little more than you might need now when planning for future tech dives... Have fun.
So in fact, your "opinion" can be wrong. Even Nova stated he uses a single wing with 60# lift for heavy doubles. Maybe you can expound on the really neat technical dives with multiple stages, scooters, extra battery cannisters for your light, deco bottles, and two sets of doubles for back gas that you have done that required 100# lift from your wings. Now you have "Supernova" jumping in and MSandler expounding on his various theories for displacement that defy the natural laws of physics and discount what has been learned in the field. Oh my, using helium in your back gas, stages, and decompression bottles, who would have thought of that. And of course, only up to 30%. Can't see why we would ever use more in technical diving. Or, that we use the stage bottles for breathing and save back tanks for an emergency.

 

[decoeric]

[/COLOR]
Gee DE, maybe you remember the question posed by the thread starter:
"I am about to begin tech training, and I needed to know a little bit of info about a bc setup. I am planning on purchasing the Dive Rite steel back plate and harness, but I can't decide on the wings. I will currently be using my bc with al 80 doubles, but in the future I would like to do some cave diving with pressed steel 104s and some decompression bottles. Obviously the Dive Rite Super Wings would be great for the cave diving, but are they too much for double al 80s? Thanks for your help! (And be nice to me, this is my first post!)"
Then, maybe you will remember your second post:
130's with a 55lb wing??? Dual 130's alone weigh 94lbs empty not counting hardware and a manifold, they are negative 10lbs full but +.75 empty. With stage bottles and possibily a can light you are looking at well over 150lbs of gear? 55lb wings would not even keep you a float with that kind of gear, with out adding a ton of air to your dry suit. To me it seems like a bad plan. Dive Rite recommends at minimum Classic wings with 59lb of lift for "heavy" doubles. Like I said a little more lift is always a better plan, especially if you do any diving that have a surface swim involved the more lift on your back will get your head out of the water better for those swims. Also the SS back plate with possibly a tank weight of some kind and ankle weights would most likely reverse the need to carry a weight belt at all. Which is very nice. When it comes right down to it you are going to buy what you think is best. Everyone in the Tech community is going to tell you something different. Case in point here. Best advice I got was buy the best you can afford, but a little more than you might need now when planning for future tech dives... Have fun.
So in fact, your "opinion" can be wrong. Even Nova stated he uses a single wing with 60# lift for heavy doubles. Maybe you can expound on the really neat technical dives with multiple stages, scooters, extra battery cannisters for your light, deco bottles, and two sets of doubles for back gas that you have done that required 100# lift from your wings. Now you have "Supernova" jumping in and MSandler expounding on his various theories for displacement that defy the natural laws of physics and discount what has been learned in the field. Oh my, using helium in your back gas, stages, and decompression bottles, who would have thought of that. And of course, only up to 30%. Can't see why we would ever use more in technical diving. Or, that we use the stage bottles for breathing and save back tanks for an emergency.

That wasn't my second posting. This was: "Stainless you can take some weight off of your belt, which is nice... 104's are going to be pretty heavy and the SS pack will feel in my opinion much more solid. I have a SS BP and love it, it just feels more solid to me.. Just my 2 cents." So again, my opinion of wings was not wrong.

Thanks for playing and have fun storming the castle...

 

[novadiver]

Nova, are you posting undera pen name? Msandler spews as much hyperbole as you, writes in a similar manner, and uses the same derogatory references. Hmmmmm......makes me think.

No pen name here! It looks like two divers fighting the ignorance that washes up on the shores of the internet. It's like medical waste around here . hows that for hyperbole.

 

[novadiver]

Hey Dan
Oddly enough I saw this posted on another thread today, but it seems to apply exceedingly well to the circus that has develped here...I'm taking the advice as well

"Never argue with an idiot (or two). He (they) will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience (which in this case seems to be substantial)".

Sound like your still taking advice from a drunk. :toilet

 

[The Fresh Prince]

That wasn't my second posting. This was: "Stainless you can take some weight off of your belt, which is nice... 104's are going to be pretty heavy and the SS pack will feel in my opinion much more solid. I have a SS BP and love it, it just feels more solid to me.. Just my 2 cents." So again, my opinion of wings was not wrong.

Thanks for playing and have fun storming the castle...

Oh, golly gee DE. Who said this for an opinion:
"Dual 130's alone weigh 94lbs empty not counting hardware and a manifold, they are negative 10lbs full but +.75 empty. With stage bottles and possibily a can light you are looking at well over 150lbs of gear? 55lb wings would not even keep you a float with that kind of gear, with out adding a ton of air to your dry suit"
I have dove way more weight than this, minimal air in my drysuit, and partially filled 55# lift wing. I must defy the laws of physics because your opinion can't be wrong.
Tilting at Windmills??? Think, then speak.

 

[novadiver]

Oh, golly gee DE. Who said this for an opinion:
"Dual 130's alone weigh 94lbs empty not counting hardware and a manifold, they are negative 10lbs full but +.75 empty. With stage bottles and possibily a can light you are looking at well over 150lbs of gear? 55lb wings would not even keep you a float with that kind of gear, with out adding a ton of air to your dry suit"
I have dove way more weight than this, minimal air in my drysuit, and partially filled 55# lift wing. I must defy the laws of physics because your opinion can't be wrong.
Tilting at Windmills??? Think, then speak.

It's that head that keeps you so buoyant. next time keep your drunken diatribe of ignorance to yourself. DE was only telling someone that was thinking about tech diving about the 100# super wing.What does it matter to you!!


And the mods call me a trouble maker, now thats nerve!!