Are rebreathers safe to dive with

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Hmmm another diver just blacked out in the pool and a second one in Egypt.
2 died in the last 4 weeks.
If it is not a fault of the rebreathers, it should be either lack of training, or diver stupidity.
Are rebreather divers more stupid than others ?
Of course both dead guys had a heart-attack, while none of the survivers had one...
And of course a official report is missing as always and will never show up...

Be careful
 
And so far this year how many OC divers have died? we are up to 15 in the UK alone already with no RB deaths, considering that in the UK RBs make up well over 10% of all active divers now, and that the dives RB's undertake are normally deeper and longer this tells you that they re actually safer than OC

Going underwater is dangerous and those who do not undertake the experiance with the proper preparation, mind set and training are at even higher risk, OC or CC

Of course the real culprit is FINS, I've seen that EVERY fatality ever recorded was wearing them!!!! BAN FINS!!!! too Dangerous to use, need more training and must all join FIR (Finning it Right), and those high tech recirculating split fins, well their even more dangerous

I've also seen them try to blame these FIN deaths on running out of gas, solo finning, being eaten by sharks etc. See there is a cover up here as well

I heard the same "They're dangerous, your die" crap when ABLJ's first come out (I bought one), then the same when single hose regs come out (bought one of those as well), same again for O2 for decompression, same for drysuits and again for Heliox and again for Nitrox and even more so when I bough a Decobrain (first dive computer and boy did we do some silly multiple deep dives using it) and now its Rebreathers. Wonder what will be next?

and yes, I am that old and have been diving for a loooooong time
 
CcrBoy:
"I like computers but not to bet my life on."

Lets hope you never need health care given all the computers used in that field. Or drive a modern car, or fly, or etc.. And I assume you only dive with analogue gauges.

You may not care for the complex nature of a CCR, but computer technology is not the problem.

I agree. I've read all the flame wars and stupid arguments on other sites, and I don't mean to start a fight here, but feel this is an important point that I haven't seen in all other postings.

An old navy diver / PADI instructor once told me that he has all his advanced classes calc. a dive on the surface, then takes 'em to 30' and has 'em recalc. What takes 2-3 min. on the surface takes 8-10 min. at depth. Nitrogen slows your thinking at all depths (thus the euphoria we all love), and no one can reliably predict narcosis.

Since a computer controller can be properly designed and rigorously tested by clear-thinking brains without any risk of nitrogen effects, I personally feel that I can trust a computer to make better decisions than I can my brain at depth.

Every day we trust our lives to computers that are far more complex than what is required to control a CCR. And many many many life support systems are computer controlled, and, again, far more complicated.

Notice I said properly designed, so please don't re-hash that stupid "take your TV underwater" quote.

I personally believe that if all RBs were controlled by properly designed computers, reducing the likelyhood of human error, there would be far fewer deaths on RBs.

But, I'll admit to being partial, since I'm a computer / embedded engineer by training, and work for a company that's been designing and fielding underwater electronic devices since the late '40s. I do not dive a RB yet, but have been researching them for about 5 years.

Having said that, please understand that I do believe that more training / respect would be required when diving a RB. A computer can't make you change your adsorbent. A death I recently read about involved a very experienced RB diver who's computer was beeping warning messages before the dive, and he whacked it 'til it stopped, then jumped in the water. No technology will prevent a sufficiently determined suicide.
 
madmole:
And so far this year how many OC divers have died? we are up to 15 in the UK alone already with no RB deaths, considering that in the UK RBs make up well over 10% of all active divers now, and that the dives RB's undertake are normally deeper and longer this tells you that they re actually safer than OC

And just to prove how pointless a statistic that is (as indeed most are), a CCR diver has drowned at the NDC.

http://www.divernet.com/news/stories/death290504.shtml

Does that make RB diving less safe than OC now?

My commiserations are with his family and friends. Please be careful out there everybody.

Andy
 
apitkin:
And just to prove how pointless a statistic that is (as indeed most are), a CCR diver has drowned at the NDC.
Andy

That will teach me not to tempt fate

From what others have told me, Looks like CCR not turned on before diving, no predive checks, no pre-breath and no buddies (nearby). I rest my case, rebreathers are not dangerous, its the folks who abuse them

mmm the group involved also seem to have FAR more than their fair share of the rebreather incidents as well
 
Sorry to hear about another update to your facts or fiction list ... you've been falling behind quite a bit. Still stuck in Scottland?
 
caveseeker7:
Sorry to hear about another update to your facts or fiction list ... you've been falling behind quite a bit. Still stuck in Scottland?

Yep, till the end of this month and then hopefully will see home a few times before work pack me off to somewhwere new (hope it's near home so I get my life back!!!)

Incident list should be almost up to date at the mo though, unless you know better, and if so please let me know (I'm currently chasing some evidence of another in Egypt but cant confirm it yet)

Some more data come in today on the latest so will add that tonight. Still not seeing any evidence to suggest the unit is at fault in any way except it does allow users to make mistakes. But you can jump in in OC with your gas turned off!!!
 
3dent:
I personally believe that if all RBs were controlled by properly designed computers, reducing the likelyhood of human error, there would be far fewer deaths on RBs.

But, I'll admit to being partial, since I'm a computer / embedded engineer by training, and work for a company that's been designing and fielding underwater electronic devices since the late '40s. I do not dive a RB yet, but have been researching them for about 5 years.

Having said that, please understand that I do believe that more training / respect would be required when diving a RB. A computer can't make you change your adsorbent for instance.

3dent, et al,

I appreciate the work of our computer systems engineers more than most, folks!

I operate an aircraft that is more complex than the space shuttle. (This is not an exaggeration when comparing machine to machine.) I have to thank the folks who designed the computer systems for making my flying life MUCH better and safer. My situational awareness capability has been multiplied a thousand-fold.

Just as with aviation, re-breather flying puts you, the diver, into a more complex environment. Operating in this environment is quite safe, and the benefits are immense. (Just ask my student who was grinning from ear to ear when he came back from his first three-hour dive with me in the Caymans on the Inspiration!)

The question is: "What makes it safe?" The answer, of course, is simple, because you have already been taught it.

THE OPERATOR is the one who makes the system as safe as it can be. Proper operating procedures keep us safe in any complex environment, whether it be flying an aircraft, or flying a re-breather. Our computers aid us in what we do, and improve our performance, but they cannot THINK for us!
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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