Are BOW and AOW classes really changing that much

[Mahoney86]

Not sure if it is an agency thing or just a way to restructure the classes to hold additional classes to make more money. I began diving in 2011 with NAUI taking BOW, AOW/Nitrox and have recently started working towards my DM as I would like to help instruct. A buddy of mine finally took the plunge and signed up for is BOW, not many shops near us offer NAUI anymore so he opted to enroll with PADI. Now let me say I think PADI is a great organization and I like some of their course offerings, though in my experience their itinerary has always been a little lax. I spent some time talking with him last night and asked him how the class was going, what he was learning, etc as I want to plan a day of diving to celebrate his graduation. We started planning our dives and he had never seen a dive table, nor had any idea to use one. He said, I was told my computer will do all this for me. I then spent an hour teaching him tables. So now I dove a bit more into his knowledge and asked some questions that required thinking like atmospheric pressure at levels, what is oxygen content in straight air and he was baffled. So I sais ok these are some more advanced items lets see what he learned diving, if he knew how to bring up an unconscious diver, if he learned basic compass navigation, ascent rates, where to make a safety stop etc... This was all new info to him. I know technology has changed, and classes have been sort of "dummed down" and additional classes are offered to teach navigation thought I was just surprised. Is this just how the classes are going now or is it merely a certifying agency thing? Im not trying to knock any agencies, just trying to figure out what else I should really be teaching him as he will be one of my main dive partners and I want to make sure he knows what he needs to.

 

[w3dge]

In my, fairly recent, experience of certifying with PADI, all of those topics that you mention your friend didn't know about were covered fairly well.

I'd suggest this is either a case of a poor instructor, or a poor student.

Its probably also worth mentioning how far through the course he is, however. He may not have reached the stage of covering some skills yet.

 

[diver 85]

OP........wish you would have/could have 'gone thru' diving in the 80's-------you'd be saying, like me, this is all a joke ie the education of divers today...........REMEMBER, in today's time the George ALWAYS wins....Good luck with you & your 'new' dive buddy-----I'd be prepared to be a solo diver.................

EDIT..:........even had to look up what BOW stood for(we just call it OW)

 

[CptTightPants21]

Could be a combination of factors. Some things are mentioned in OW, but aren't really stressed, other things just take time to sink in.

I consider BOW to be just a learners permit. I would consider AOW and Nitrox to be the "complete open water" package and even then there is a lot to learn.

It's important that you are supportive and helping him learn the concepts, but don't be the complete know it all/look down on him for not knowing some of these things. Everyone was new at one point, treat him like other divers who have more experience have treated you.

 

[Patoux01]

We started planning our dives and he had never seen a dive table, nor had any idea to use one. He said, I was told my computer will do all this for me. I then spent an hour teaching him tables.

And right he is, you can use most (any?) computers to plan your next dive. Tables are useless (IMNHO). It should however have been explained.

So now I dove a bit more into his knowledge and asked some questions that required thinking like atmospheric pressure at levels, what is oxygen content in straight air and he was baffled.

This should be covered.

So I sais ok these are some more advanced items lets see what he learned diving, if he knew how to bring up an unconscious diver, if he learned basic compass navigation, ascent rates, where to make a safety stop etc...

Ask 10 different instructors, you'll get 10 different answers here.
In order:
- not the job of a beginning OW diver... In the same way I don't go and ask people that just began doing whatever sport if they know how to do proper CPR. Maybe it used to be done, but I don't think it's vital, and has been dismissed in most agencies I believe. Or maybe it was just a "try something" thing that's taught there, don't remember.
- Is covered in training. IIRC, straight line and square patterns (?) are covered.
- ascent rates are covered
- safety stop is covered. Though I can't recall what is said as to "where".

This was all new info to him. I know technology has changed, and classes have been sort of "dummed down" and additional classes are offered to teach navigation thought I was just surprised. Is this just how the classes are going now or is it merely a certifying agency thing? Im not trying to knock any agencies, just trying to figure out what else I should really be teaching him as he will be one of my main dive partners and I want to make sure he knows what he needs to.

Nope, this is just an instructor thing. There's a lot to be said about the teaching imo, but those points should be covered. So it's either bad student (it happens) or bad instructor, or your buddy isn't done with his class and then you can't blame it on him anyone.

 

[Mahoney86]

Thanks for chiming in guys.I know in past experiences a lot of it boils down to the instructor. I was fortunate enough to have been taught by some very safety oriented and "more knowledge is better" guys. Perhaps I was taught over and above the class itinerary. I just wanted to follow up with that. My buddy is very open to learn and enjoys my additional teaching so my additional knowledge is well received. I would disagree though that dive tables are useless, I feel its another item of redundancy. I have seen my fair share of computers batteries die, act up, so on... Most of which I will agree were lack of maintenance or pre-dive checks of the diver but they are failure points. I would agree my first line of safety would not be a new diver, however if he is my diver partner and somehow I become unconscious, I would expect him to be able to bring my safely to the surface. I would not expect him to know CPR, though during my Basic class we did learn CPR

 

[ScubaJill]

Not sure if it is an agency thing or just a way to restructure the classes to hold additional classes to make more money. I began diving in 2011 with NAUI taking BOW, AOW/Nitrox and have recently started working towards my DM as I would like to help instruct. A buddy of mine finally took the plunge and signed up for is BOW, not many shops near us offer NAUI anymore so he opted to enroll with PADI. Now let me say I think PADI is a great organization and I like some of their course offerings, though in my experience their itinerary has always been a little lax. I spent some time talking with him last night and asked him how the class was going, what he was learning, etc as I want to plan a day of diving to celebrate his graduation. We started planning our dives and he had never seen a dive table, nor had any idea to use one. He said, I was told my computer will do all this for me. I then spent an hour teaching him tables. So now I dove a bit more into his knowledge and asked some questions that required thinking like atmospheric pressure at levels, what is oxygen content in straight air and he was baffled. So I sais ok these are some more advanced items lets see what he learned diving, if he knew how to bring up an unconscious diver, if he learned basic compass navigation, ascent rates, where to make a safety stop etc... This was all new info to him. I know technology has changed, and classes have been sort of "dummed down" and additional classes are offered to teach navigation thought I was just surprised. Is this just how the classes are going now or is it merely a certifying agency thing? Im not trying to knock any agencies, just trying to figure out what else I should really be teaching him as he will be one of my main dive partners and I want to make sure he knows what he needs to.

I took the full PADI OW class while on vacation 2 years ago. The dive tables were very much a part of the course, though I recall some type of PADI-provided computer could be used instead of laminated tables. I was tested on those tables, too, and had to calculate pressure groups and surface intervals over multiple dives given certain depths and dive times. I think that lesson may have come toward the very end of the class, though. How far along is he in his course? Has he taken his first open water dives yet?

 

[Mahoney86]

I took the full PADI OW class while on vacation 2 years ago. The dive tables were very much a part of the course, though I recall some type of PADI-provided computer could be used instead of laminated tables. I was tested on those tables, too, and had to calculate pressure groups and surface intervals over multiple dives given certain depths and dive times. I think that lesson may have come toward the very end of the class, though. How far along is he in his course? Has he taken his first open water dives yet?

Yes he has completed pool dives and 1st open water. Has one more dive to go

 

[scubadada]

Yes he has completed pool dives and 1st open water. Has one more dive to go

I assume that means he made 2 dives and had 2 dives to go

 

[ScubaJill]

Yes he has completed pool dives and 1st open water. Has one more dive to go

I'll let a PADI instructor jump in, since I just realized you posted in the Q&A section for Scuba agencies. I simply cannot remember at what point toward the end of the class that the dive tables came into play. I do remember there were multiple questions about dive planning and the tables on the final test, which I believe came after I completed the open water dives.

I will say that I felt I didn't get enough time with the dive tables and planning actual dives with them.