Aqualung's war with Online Consumers

[OldNSalty]

Could you actually go into some detail on this. I ahve to agree with Phil, I don't see how replacing the parts could possibly be profitable. Marginal differences in price, then factor in time and you would have to be in the negative. I don't buy it.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

The 21 rst century argument gets old. In the 70;s and 80;s you had Centeral Skin Divers, Berry Scuba and osm eother large mailorder compnay I can't remember. Leisure pro is nothing new and the internet just repalced mail order trade in the diving industry.

It is not about technology or better interent deals, it is about small versus large volume sales in a market where the volume for most local dive shops is by definition small and local.

What does bother me is that AL, SP, etc, all make the stuff, stamp the serial numbers on it and ship it to a dealer who is an "authorized" dealer somewhere. If the item then shows up elsewhere as an on-line sale, tracking it back to the source is easy to accomplish. For example Aqualung could have a clerical support staff person buy an AL reg from LP and when it arrives, they note the serial number look up where it was shipped and pull that particular dealership and notify them they are no longer an AL dealer. It would not take long for word to get around and for internet sales to grind to a halt - IF AL, SP or Oceanic really wanted to control them.

The fact is they don't. The reasons probably have a lot to do with the volume of sales made through the internet and the potential market share lost if they shut off internet sales.

So in effect, what is left is trying to control costs in free parts programs by putting customers through a proccess of proving a reg was obtained through an "authorized" dealer.

What is unfair and also problematic is limiting the ability of "authorized" dealers to compete with grey market vendors selling the same stuff. It is problematic as it is not fair not to allow it, but if you did, the margin gets very thin for most local dive shops and they bring in even less cash in a market where the profit margin is already razor thin.

The solution is for AL, Oceanic, SP and the other big names to get together and agree to stop on line sales simultaneously and ease the pressure on their brick and mortar dealers. If that ever happens I am going to log out of SB for at least a month to avoid all the whiners who will no longer save a few bucks buying on line after they tried an item on in their LDS.

 

[mike_s]

The solution is for AL, Oceanic, SP and the other big names to get together and agree to stop on line sales simultaneously and ease the pressure on their brick and mortar dealers. If that ever happens I am going to log out of SB for at least a month to avoid all the whiners who will no longer save a few bucks buying on line after they tried an item on in their LDS.

Oceanic allows online sales by their dealers...

They even will host online sales for a store that doesn't have a website or online sales for Oceanic products... (or they used to...)

why would the others agree to stop online sales, when they don't officially reconize it in the first place?

 

[DA Aquamaster]

See...there you go. Oceanic is the problem. Let's boycott them. :mooner:

 

[Nemrod]

The 21 rst century argument gets old. In the 70;s and 80;s you had Centeral Skin Divers, Berry Scuba and osm eother large mailorder compnay I can't remember. Leisure pro is nothing new and the internet just repalced mail order trade in the diving industry.

It is not about technology or better interent deals, it is about small versus large volume sales in a market where the volume for most local dive shops is by definition small and local.

What does bother me is that AL, SP, etc, all make the stuff, stamp the serial numbers on it and ship it to a dealer who is an "authorized" dealer somewhere. If the item then shows up elsewhere as an on-line sale, tracking it back to the source is easy to accomplish. For example Aqualung could have a clerical support staff person buy an AL reg from LP and when it arrives, they note the serial number look up where it was shipped and pull that particular dealership and notify them they are no longer an AL dealer. It would not take long for word to get around and for internet sales to grind to a halt - IF AL, SP or Oceanic really wanted to control them.

The fact is they don't. The reasons probably have a lot to do with the volume of sales made through the internet and the potential market share lost if they shut off internet sales.

So in effect, what is left is trying to control costs in free parts programs by putting customers through a proccess of proving a reg was obtained through an "authorized" dealer.

What is unfair and also problematic is limiting the ability of "authorized" dealers to compete with grey market vendors selling the same stuff. It is problematic as it is not fair not to allow it, but if you did, the margin gets very thin for most local dive shops and they bring in even less cash in a market where the profit margin is already razor thin.

The solution is for AL, Oceanic, SP and the other big names to get together and agree to stop on line sales simultaneously and ease the pressure on their brick and mortar dealers. If that ever happens I am going to log out of SB for at least a month to avoid all the whiners who will no longer save a few bucks buying on line after they tried an item on in their LDS.

I don't agree, in the 60s and 70s there were various mail order outfits but many sold off brand or house brand and none shipped for three day delivery with the click of my mouse. Mail order and catalog sales were and still are a means to retailing goods but neither compare to online sales. Refusal to participate in the technology of the internet will get you where McCain got when he said he doesn't do the internet, now he doesn't answer to Mr. President either. Companies that hide their heads in the sand and refuse service to genuine product regardless of where it came from will find themselves extinct. A regulator purchased from LP is as genuine as the one at the corner retail dive equipment store, just the one from LP cost me 179 dollars and the one at the retail dive equipment store would have been 450 dollars. Sorry, AL can kiss my rear, I paid 179 and ran laughing.

N

 

[Twistedarts]

DA - while the 21st century argument is old (agreed), it is a sign of the times.

Everything that was once a form of expression or a pastime or fun has been commoditised thus de-valued. It doesn't matter if it is a regulator, dvd or pair of shoes. While it is unfortunate, it is the way things are. This is the end result of a disposable society. It was only a matter of time before it affected the dive industry.

SP, AL are trying to hold out and maintain their victorian era business methodology so I say let em fail, just like the banks and auto dealers. When they do the companies/businesses that rise in their places will be stronger and more open to customer needs not customer bleeds.

Besides, their gear is no better than any other, I'll put my Sherwoods up against any offering from those 2. But like all things scuba, it is a personal choice. (chevy - ford = no difference.)

 

[rstofer]

The solution is for AL, Oceanic, SP and the other big names to get together and agree to stop on line sales simultaneously and ease the pressure on their brick and mortar dealers. If that ever happens I am going to log out of SB for at least a month to avoid all the whiners who will no longer save a few bucks buying on line after they tried an item on in their LDS.

Oceanic did just that when they got Leisure Pro to become an authorized dealer. Now the LP price is exactly the same as the LDS price and the product comes with a factory warranty.

It's just AL and SP that haven't gotten the message. Not that I want them to get the message because having LP as an authorized dealer just eliminates one source of reasonably priced gear.

And I don't think we're talking about a few bucks on a regulator. We're talking multiples of $100 on something like a Mk 17/G250V. If this was a 10% thing, nobody would care. But it isn't.

Richard

 

[redacted]

What does bother me is that AL, SP, etc, all make the stuff, stamp the serial numbers on it and ship it to a dealer who is an "authorized" dealer somewhere. If the item then shows up elsewhere as an on-line sale, tracking it back to the source is easy to accomplish. For example Aqualung could have a clerical support staff person buy an AL reg from LP and when it arrives, they note the serial number look up where it was shipped and pull that particular dealership and notify them they are no longer an AL dealer. It would not take long for word to get around and for internet sales to grind to a halt - IF AL, SP or Oceanic really wanted to control them.

The fact is they don't. The reasons probably have a lot to do with the volume of sales made through the internet and the potential market share lost if they shut off internet sales.

I actually believe if it were easy to control the grey market sources, that the scuba manufacturers would. But I suspect that the consumer protection laws of some countries may not allow the manufacturer to manipulate retailer or cut off supplies without leaving that country's or region's market.

What is unfair and also problematic is limiting the ability of "authorized" dealers to compete with grey market vendors selling the same stuff. It is problematic as it is not fair not to allow it, but if you did, the margin gets very thin for most local dive shops and they bring in even less cash in a market where the profit margin is already razor thin.

From my perspective, retailers who accept the dealer agreements from these companies don't really want to deal with too much competition. Most seek and welcome the price protection these companies appear to promise and then tolerate the flaws in that protection. Any LDS has means at it's disposal to offer competetive deals to customers who walk into their store but decline to do so to protect their profit margin. Without price controls, the weak (uncompetitive) would be culled from the herd much quicker.

The solution is for AL, Oceanic, SP and the other big names to get together and agree to stop on line sales simultaneously and ease the pressure on their brick and mortar dealers. If that ever happens I am going to log out of SB for at least a month to avoid all the whiners who will no longer save a few bucks buying on line after they tried an item on in their LDS.

Yes, I would like to see that also. That would probably take them out of the legal gray area they are now working in and put them clearly afoul of our consumer protection laws.

 

[scubapatton]

interesting to watch this thread. I will never say never about buying or not buying a specific product, or from a specific shop. I guess I just live in the gray. No.. not the gray market... just the shades of both sides.

But hey, let's throws out conjecture and hyperbole and see where the ship sails....

 

[Rhone Man]

To: All staff

From: Aqualung management

Subject: Inter-net sales
_______________________________________________

The management has once against considered strategy in light of this new fangled inter-net, and remains of the view that this is a transitory phenomena which will soon become obselete. Like television. We don't understand it, so we don't see why others should.

As in the past, we are convinced that all sales should and will be made through small bricks and mortars outfits, whom are particularly susceptible to our leverage in forcing them to sell at anti-competitive prices for American consumers which allow us to maintain fat margins on our products.

However, we will continue to sell gear on a discounted basis in overseas markets where consumers are poorer because, frankly, we wouldn't be able to sell gear there otherwise. Happily, management has determined that Americans seem to be going through flourishing economic times at the moment, and so should be happy to pay more for their dive gear.

Whilst it is true that some American consumers do, from time to time, get a bit tetchy at being asked to pay for more for the same product, and try to work their way around the system, we will resolve this problem by refusing to service their gear and hoping that they drown.

In anticipation of your future cooperation.

MANAGEMENT