Aqualung reg

[Bubbletrubble]

Bubbletrouble,
Actually, the Apeks ATX second, Titan LX second and regular Legend second have identical internal parts which are interchangeable between models. This includes air barrels, shuttle valves, seats, orifices, etc, and even o-rings. The Legend LX has a knob instead of a hex screw, so the parts are slightly different. And, if someone wants to be the only one on his block who has a Titan LX with an adjustment knob, that is an easy retrofit. The Apeks XTX is similar and uses many of the same parts, but has some differences because of the reversible air barrel.

@keyshunter: OK. If you've tried swapping all of the internal parts, then I wouldn't be surprised if you could. After looking at the parts diagrams, yes, the same parts are used in the balance chamber, but the valve body/spindle appears to have a different part number in the Titan LX/Legend vs. the Apeks ATX200/100/50. Also the diaphragm, Venturi levers, and plastic case/housing are different part numbers.
Yeah, I saw that the Apeks XTX 2nd stage has to have a two-piece Venturi lever design so that it can deflect air properly with the air barrel installed in either orientation.

The regular Titan you mention is a simple downstream, as opposed to the pneumatically balanced seconds above, and is completely different.

I agree. I guess my last post wasn't 100% clear. The primary reason for the post was to make the point that the Titan 2nd stage is different from the Titan LX/Legend 2nd stage.

 

[rstofer]

Why not go to the Aqualung website and note that the Titan LX Supreme is designed for water colder than 50 deg F thus implying that the manufacturer doesn't recommend the Titan LX in colder water?

Titan LX

Oceanic makes the same distinction when they state in their user manual that no Oceanic piston type first stage is recommended for use below 50 deg F and that there is no kit or modification that can change that restriction. Oceanic only recommends their CDX5 and FDX10 (diaphragm) 1st stages for cold water.

Richard

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Why not go to the Aqualung website and note that the Titan LX Supreme is designed for water colder than 50 deg F thus implying that the manufacturer doesn't recommend the Titan LX in colder water?

Titan LX

@rstofer: Yeah, I think we're aware of what the manufacturer's recommendations are. However, I have heard on SB (not on this thread, though) that some divers have used the Titan and Titan LX first stages successfully in 40°F water. I suspect that using proper cold water "technique" goes a long way in such situations.

 

[rstofer]

@rstofer: Yeah, I think we're aware of what the manufacturer's recommendations are. However, I have heard on SB (not on this thread, though) that some divers have used the Titan and Titan LX first stages successfully in 40°F water. I suspect that using proper cold water "technique" goes a long way in such situations.

I retired from an industry where things like manufacturer's recommendations were taken as 'law' and I get deeply concerned when I see divers recommend using regulators outside of these guidelines. Maybe technique works, maybe it fails. Situations can vary and there is no good defense of a failure based on a deliberate deviation from written documentation.

Richard

 

[kevin316]

Thanks for all the info guys, as usual SB comes through. I have a hunch I will have to pay to much for it to be worth it.

There is an Aqualung Legend with the same octo as well as a Suutno gauge set with only 2 dives on it (so they say). On LP it would sell for $580.00

I was reading on Aqualungs website that if you buy their products online it won't be an authorized dealer and the warranty will be void as well as service may be an issue. Has anyone had any problems with service or getting parts buying from LP or buying a used Regulator set?

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I retired from an industry where things like manufacturer's recommendations were taken as 'law' and I get deeply concerned when I see divers recommend using regulators outside of these guidelines. Maybe technique works, maybe it fails. Situations can vary and there is no good defense of a failure based on a deliberate deviation from written documentation.

@rstofer: What line of work were you in previously? Aerospace perhaps?

There is precedence for divers successfully using the Titan regs and some unsealed piston designs in water temps down in the 40s. I place more weight on this than on what the manufacturer "recommends" in its marketing brochure. After all, we are talking about just a few degrees difference here. That being said, when water temps get down in the 40-45°F range, then I'd go with a dry-sealed first stage, but that's just me.

 

[Nemrod]

There seems to have developed over the last decade this notion that only sealed regulators should be used in cold water. It is probably a CYA blanket company statement to protect them from a law suit and not anything based on actual testing regarding the Titan LX and similar regulators. Yes, a cold water reg should be sealed and should have certain design enhancements to decrease the possibility of a freeze. The FACT is that the Titan LX first stage design, at least the former version, while not impervious to freezing, is not especially prone to it. Additionally the second stage has the same "finned" hose connection as the "cold water" specific model. Mine even came with the lip shield. I would not hesitate, nor have I, to use it in cold water at least down to the upper 40s.

To much information and engineering is lawyer driven CYA and is not based on an actual need.

N

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I was reading on Aqualungs website that if you buy their products online it won't be an authorized dealer and the warranty will be void as well as service may be an issue. Has anyone had any problems with service or getting parts buying from LP or buying a used Regulator set?

@kevin316: You shouldn't have any problems getting a LP reg or used reg serviced by a local reg shop. Expect to pay for the reg parts, though. If your LDS gives you flack for not buying the reg from them, then I'd go elsewhere. I believe you could even have the reg serviced at LP if you can't find a local reg tech willing to do the work.

 

[rstofer]

@rstofer: What line of work were you in previously? Aerospace perhaps?

Nuclear energy although I didn't work in that end of the business.

In my youth, I completely blew past things like recommendations. As I got older I learned that I couldn't defend my actions when things went sideways.

There is precedence for divers successfully using the Titan regs and some unsealed piston designs in water temps down in the 40s. I place more weight on this than on what the manufacturer "recommends" in its marketing brochure. After all, we are talking about just a few degrees difference here. That being said, when water temps get down in the 40-45°F range, then I'd go with a dry-sealed first stage, but that's just me.

But you're spllitting this thing pretty close: at 50 deg F you don't worry about recommendations but at 45 deg F you do. A little thermocline and you're there!

I might draw the line differently: at 55 deg F, I don't care but at 50 deg F it's a dry-sealed diaphragm. In the middle, I'm flexible.

I do understand there is no hard line in the sand. I have used my piston type Oceanic Omega IIs in mid-40s with no issue. I have since changed the 1st stage to a CDX5 but only on my primary set. I have several other sets that are factory stock. The rest of my family dive with cold water regs: Dive Rite Hurricane, Oceanic Delta4/FDX10 and an Edge Epic with cold water kit.

I'll pretty much do what I want. But when it comes to someone else, I will never vary from the manufacturer's instructions.

In the debate over piston versus sealed diaphragm, if the word 'cold' comes up, I'll go for the sealed diaphragm every time. I just can't find justification for even considering piston 1st stages for cold water because it always gets down to splitting hairs: how cold is cold?. The Oceanic FDX10 and the SP Mk17 would seem to end the discussion. I know that Aqualung makes something equivalent but I'm not familiar with their products.

Richard

 

[imwright1985]

I have the Mikron and have taken it to 52 degrees. The CW recommendations are to release liability. I doubt the reg will start to freeze at 45 and even if you take it to about 40 wouldnt be too likely. Unless you are in the Power industry, aviation, racing, or other performance oriented industries there is a factor of safety which is where usage recommendations come from. The factors of safety are kind of industry set where there is sustained reliability to that value and occasional errors may arise below it where certain products test batches have no issues below it or drop to being about 30% failures for test groups for things like rocketry in more isolated areas which failure would not have any repurcussions other than cost, but with the product hitting closer to peak performance almost every use.