Aqualung and gray markets...FYI

[CMAN]

With 220 posts in six years, what possessed you to reply to this thread with this reply? Just curious.

BTW, I think that is too much popcorn for this topic. This shouldn't even rate as a two bagger.

Do you still think it only rates a two bagger?

 

[redacted]

Also given that a warranty involves the manufacturer WARRANTS the product to be free of defects in materials and workmanship, I'm still trying to figure out how the absence of that contractual agreement retroactively induces defects in a product in sealed factory packaging. If we could better understand how that works, it could have far reaching military application - tear up a contract and all the enemies planes start mysteriously crashing.

I believe what happens here, in the USA, is the mfgr still warrants the product. But he does not honor that warranty to anyone other than the original owner. It is my understanding that most (maybe all) European countries (and I'm sure others) enforce a legal requirement for warranties to be passed on to subsequent owners. No such requirement exists in "the home of the free and land of the brave". In the case of AL products acquired from Leisurpro, AL probably recognizes LP or their supplier as the original owner and LP's customers are subsequent owners and therefore not recognized by AL USA (or its authorized distributors/retailers) for warranty purposes. But LP or their source must be recognized, by law in the originating country, and are covered. LP is not eating the losses for warranty coverage. With their smaller profit margins and some of the lemons that have been produced, especially computers, they might otherwise have a hard time turning a profit on some lines.

 

[redacted]

Unfortunately if you boycott all of the elitist scuba companies, you aren't left with many choices.

Ebay

 

[Joe-Diver]

I heard that AL determined the grey market flood was washing through Spain, and they were working to close that down....I've heard of peeps getting spanish manuals when ordering online.... might be interesting to hear from LP Brett on this...comment on where they get their AL product.

 

[DwayneJ]

Unfortunately if you boycott all of the elitist scuba companies, you aren't left with many choices.

There are plenty of choices and a swing in consumer choice provides an opportunity for other smaller companies to grow. I believe Aqualung has both original products and distribution rights. When the distribution rights expire and/or are renegotiated, hopefully the products will move to another company with modern business practices.

 

[mike_s]

This a statement Aqualung has made regarding gray market dealers such as Leisure Pro.

Leisure Pro is NOT an authorized Aqua Lung dealer

It'd be nice to know what your relationship with Aqualung is with this posting?


Do you sell their gear? or work for a shop that sells their gear?


or is that this is geared towards you have something against Leisure Pro for some past experience?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Interesting ... since LP is not an authorized Aqualung dealer, how is it that they often have new Aqualung products to sell before the authorized dealers do?

It would be interesting to know where LP gets their Aqualung products ... and why, since they all have serial numbers on them ... Aqualung doesn't already know the answer to that question.

My guess is that they do, but the profits that come from selling to unauthorized dealers provide little incentive to actually enforce their own policies ... particularly since they then have an excuse to not honor their own warranty on those products.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ColinMc]

Now, I wonder just how much it costs a LDS to fill a tank with EAN... One dollar per fill? I do not know and would appreciate some informed information.

There´s alot that goes into figuring what that 32 or 36 fill costs, from the cost and maintenence of the compressor, to the employees time, the employees nitrox blender course for legal reasons, extra insurance for hazerdous materials, liability insurance, to the cost of buying O2. To fill an air tank we figure costs us around 2 dollars, and read that correct COSTS us $2, you pay $4 and we pay $2. Every tank technically looses us money, money we ofset with the profit margin in gear sales.

Maybe 32 costs an extra $1 in materials (O2) but it slows my fills (we do partial pressure so I have to top fill with air VERY slowly to avoid a flash fire or at the least a potential hazardous situation, Safety is #1) I have to dump your tank completely, fill with the proper pressure of O2, top with air, and then wait a while for the mix to stabilize and then check the mix. NY is very strict now, I have to have everything in order as far as paperwork, checking cards, getting customer verification signatures. Its a real pain in the butt, even my most regular customers must have their Nitrox card photocopied everytime to put in the log with the fill info card.

So don´t think your getting ripped off by your LDS everytime, he´s doing you a service and services usually do cost more than what it costs the service provider. LP may be a LDS to NYC, but they aren´t my LDS, and they don´t compete with me on courses, air fills, or a source for local dive sites. Oh come to think of it, they don´t compete with me in every aspect that DOESN´T pay the bills. LP I´m sure is a great bunch of guys, but they and the rest of the internet stores that lack brick and mortar cause the people who do venture into brick and mortar to have fits due to lost local sales (yes leisure pro is brick and mortar, I´ve been to their store/warehouse/camera store)

I´ve seen people say they want to get a compressor and make a go of it, no issues, go out and buy a 8-14K compressor, pay for 3 phase service, deal with the maintenance costs, and the eventual rebuilds, you too will see you need at least 4-7 dollars to break even at best.

Its not sour grapes, just some people here have no comprehension of what the real headaches are to being in this biz.

 

[fireflock]

Its not sour grapes, just some people here have no comprehension of what the real headaches are to being in this biz.

I bet more people _do_ understand what you're talking about than you realize.

What we don't understand is why shops don't charge more for fills, or training, or anything else that you can't buy elsewhere. The answer I most often see is that other LDS's in the local area are keeping shops from charging a market price for these things. Can a shop really blame that on their customers?

Most people do understand that the LDS business model doesn't make a lot of sense. We don't understand why dealers put up with doublespeak from companies like AquaLung or make some efforts to change the local shop model that obviously isn't working well for dealers or customers. A few big name manufacturers are the only ones who seem to enjoy the way things are.

Rich

 

[redacted]

My guess is that they do, but the profits that come from selling to unauthorized dealers provide little incentive to actually enforce their own policies ... particularly since they then have an excuse to not honor their own warranty on those products.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

It is quite clear that they have to know. But I believe Leisurepro has a fairly diverse network of sources including goods from countries who's consumer protection laws prevent a mfgr from restricting retailer prices and sales means. And I suspect the penalties for violating such laws are significant and may result in the mfgr having to terminate all business in that market. That is why you can buy scubapro and aqualung products from an authorized dealer, Diveinn, in Spain on the internet. But your LDS will probably not honor the warranty because they are not an authorized USA dealer. Obviously those mfgrs have been able to exercise some influence as Diveinn used to be a great place for buying service kits online. I believe they. and the German dealers who sell kits online, will no longer ship to the USA. And with the value of the $$ in the trash, they probably would not be a very good buy anyway. What the manufactures have been unable to do for whatever reason (stop gray market), the economy may do for them.