Apex atx200 freeflow

[3500PSI]

I just got an apex atx200 and only dove it 10 times before i got a bad freeflow. Luckly i was only 15ft doing a weight check and surfaced accidentaly when my tank ran low. I was practicing breathing off a freeflow reg but when i let off it wouldnt stop! After i surfaced i was doing EVERYTHING possible to try to stop it and finally my dive buddy had to turn off/on my tank to get it to stop. My question is why did it do this? i got this reg because i thought it was the best but now its got me kind of worried that it might do it to me at a depth that could get me into trouble.

And to all those people that think diving without a pony is smarter are wrong!(main argument agaist pony's is that they will make the diver over-confident and start to be careless) what if i was at 100 ft and this happened and it ran my tank so low i could do a safty stop?! After this experience i am sold on getting a pony slung like a stage.

p.s i cant reach behind my head and turn off my tank i would have to take off my gear to get to it.

 

[RichLockyer]

3500PSI once bubbled...
i got this reg because i thought it was the best but now its got me kind of worried that it might do it to me at a depth that could get me into trouble.

It IS one of the best regs, and that is part of why it did this.
When gas expands, it cools. By holding the purge to practice the skill, you allowed a small amount of ice to form on the valve seat, which caused the freeflow.
Shutting the tank off allowed the ice to melt and eliminated the problem.
The Apeks is a high-performance regulator, and thus, allows more air to expand more quickly, which does increase the chances of a freeze-up.

Unless there is something wrong with your particular reg, it will not suddenly start to freeflow on you while you are using it normally.

And PLEASE, do the freeflow breathing skill in a pool or in water shallow enough to simply stand up if there is a problem.

 

[RichLockyer]

3500PSI once bubbled...
make the diver over-confident and start to be careless) what if i was at 100 ft and this happened and it ran my tank so low i could do a safty stop?

p.s i cant reach behind my head and turn off my tank i would have to take off my gear to get to it.

If you are doing a recreational profile dive, you can most likely ignore the safety stop without worry. It's a safety stop... not a mandatory decompression stop. You would be more at risk of an overexpansion injury from the rapid ascent than you would in getting bent by blowing off the stop.

As far as not being able to reach your valve, that is something you need to work on. What if you are on a boat and accidentally jump in (or fall in) with your valve closed and no air in your BC?
You won't be able to use your pony if you fall in before you put it on.

Make sure you can reach your valve. The life you save may be your own.

 

[Genesis]

Isn't the ATX200 a sealed first?

If it is, then either (1) the freeze was in the SECOND (unlikely but possible) OR (2) you got a load of gas with a too-high humidity content and it froze INTERNALLY (in the gas pathway)

If the latter, whoever fills your tanks should be exorciated, and if they are STEEL tanks, you had better have someone you trust take a look inside and see if they have suddenly developed a bad case of rust!

BTW, its pretty hard to know whether the first or second froze. But nearly all freezes are in firsts; it DOES happen on seconds, but the typical means for it to happen is when you're diving in below-freezing weather and you exhale a few times on the surface - the cold SURFACE air gets in there when you take the reg out of your mouth, freezes your condensation (or water) inside the reg, and jams the mechanism.

For a second to freeze as a consequence of breathing off an intentional freeflow is extremely unlikely - and odd. The pressure drop (~140 psi to ambient) is simply not enough to provoke the kind of extreme adiabatic cooling necessary. Now the drop in the FIRST stage, from 3500 psi to 140, IS, but again, if the reg is a sealed first, there's no water (in theory) in there TO freeze.

I'm suspicious of your gas supplier on this one.

Second, Rich is dead on. Being able to reach your valve is NOT optional. Not even for open water divers. It is a must; you may kill yourself (literally) some day if you can't.

 

[RichLockyer]

Genesis once bubbled...
For a second to freeze as a consequence of breathing off an intentional freeflow is extremely unlikely - and odd. The pressure drop (~140 psi to ambient) is simply not enough to provoke the kind of extreme adiabatic cooling necessary. Now the drop in the FIRST stage, from 3500 psi to 140, IS, but again, if the reg is a sealed first, there's no water (in theory) in there TO freeze.

Mine does it too... twice. Once during DIR-F, at the end of the first dive I had to dump my 120 to 500psi for the weight check. Water was 48^f and after dumping 1500psi I had to shut down to stop the freeflow.
I did the same at home later duming an 80 of 40% down to remix to 32%. This time, as soon as I shut down the tank, I re-opened... no freeflow and the IP was solid at 135.

There was still a slight hiss from the 2nd, which I pinned down to the hose connection... the hiss went away as soon as I warmed the connection.

 

[Genesis]

Mine does it too... twice. Once during DIR-F, at the end of the first dive I had to dump my 120 to 500psi for the weight check. Water was 48^f and after dumping 1500psi I had to shut down to stop the freeflow.
I did the same at home later duming an 80 of 40% down to remix to 32%. This time, as soon as I shut down the tank, I re-opened... no freeflow and the IP was solid at 135.

You're dumping air like mad when you do th at skill. The water is driven out of the reg by the freeflow; there's none in the airspace, as the air expells it, unless there is something odd about the design of the second (the airtube, etc) that traps water in places you don't want it trapped.

To freeze up you need water to get cold enough to freeze and block the mechanism in a way that holds the lever down or the seat open.

Possible, yes.

I bet if you had an IP gauge on that reg when you had the freeflows you would have seen a freeflowing first. Of course once it is shut down and thaws the IP will be stable

BTW, the dew point of decent quality air is at least -50F. Mine tends to be even drier than that, but that's 'cause I hyperfilter it and also change my primary filters on a highly anal schedule. As an example, I just had to change my H/F cartridge, and the inside of the H/F cannister was BONE dry. That cannister (the H/F stack) is NEVER bled down or dumped - it hasn't been down to ambient pressure since the filter went in there 7,000 cf of gas ago - and in that time it collected exactly ZERO liquid condensate.

That's how it should ALWAYS be, but not how it is at many shops.... (the only bad news is that air that dry can give you HORRIBLE cottonmouth!)

If the dew point of the gas is high enough you could reach that temperature during an aggressive freeflow test (or an intentional bleed-down. If you do, then the first stage will freeze INTERNALLY! Ugly, as all the environmental sealing in the world is worthless in that case. Even more ugly is that it can happen underwater when you "least expect it."

 

[Charlie99]

3500PSI once bubbled...
i cant reach behind my head and turn off my tank i would have to take off my gear to get to it.

What made a big difference for me is putting my elbow against the side of my head, instead of out over my shoulder. Good luck.

 

[3500PSI]

I still cant reach my valve no matter how hard i try. I put my bc on and tryed in front of my bathroom mirror to try and help me but i am 3-4 inches away from getting to it. I am curious now to know if i have my bc setup wrong. I am new to diving and only have 20 dives so am still configuring my gear.

Gear Config
oms iq pack sta going through middle hole

 

[3500PSI]

I still cant reach my valve no matter how hard i try. I put my bc on and tryed in front of my bathroom mirror to try and help me but i am 3-4 inches away from getting to it. I am curious now to know if i have my bc setup wrong. I am new to diving and only have 20 dives so am still configuring my gear.

Gear Config
oms iq pack sta going through middle hole of wing then going through bottom hole of the Iq pak.

great information so far though! thanks to all that have replyed to far

 

[Genesis]

Your left arm can sometimes, if reached AROUND your head (from the front), get to it.

You need to come up with a way to be able to reach it. This is a very important safety issue; it only takes once jumping in with your air turned off and if you can't get to it there is a very good probability that you're cooked.