AOW for Experienced Divers: An Open Letter to PADI

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guyharrisonphoto

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Dear PADI,

I have been OW certified since 1978 (thanks for my superb training, back then). My training back then included required mastery of gear (doffing and donning at the surface, and underwater without a mask, diving to the bottom and assembling then donning the gear without a mask etc), navigation, exposure to decompression theory and tables for basic deco dives. Since then, I have accumulated about 1000 dives. Because of my training and the group I learned with mentored me, I have done deep diving, planned decompression diving to 225’ on air, wreck and reef diving around the world, night diving, wall diving, strong current drift diving, diving with doubles, and diving that includes a combination of several of the above factors and conditions. I have had to rescue an OOG buddy by breathing him up from 140 feet and through a mandatory deco stop, in the days before octopi and safe seconds. I always carry my log books of my most recent 100 dives.

However, I have now had two shops tell me that, without the “AOW” card, they will not dive me deeper than 60 feet, period, even if I have my log books with me and they can verify my experience by speaking to me. This is of course a small minority of shops. Most shops are glad to have me on the boat once they see my logs or dive with me even once.
Nonetheless, I have now been compelled to take “AOW” and get the card that any diver can get with the first nine dives of their life, none of which need be deeper than 90 feet. It is no exaggeration at all to say that I easily could have taught this course. The instructor was very capable and, at least, had as many dives as I (not the case with many instructors I meet). He gave a fine course; that is not the issue.

I was very displeased to pay $$$ for this course, which has no place at my level of experience (I am fully ready for tech training by now). This is made worse by the fact that “AOW” is the mandatory gateway to further training (Rescue, Tech, etc), just adding and adding to the cost.

Don’t get me wrong. For newly certified divers or those with just a few dives (the other participants had between 5 and 20 dives), the course was beneficial. By the end, there was a marked and noticeable improvement in those divers, mainly because the instructor required peak performance buoyancy as one of the dives and spent some quality time dialing in weights and training proper breath control.

However, for a diver like myself, the course did not offer much except some practice (and I practice my skills regularly during my own diving), and the usual enjoyable camaraderie of divers.

My question is, why are experienced divers forced to get the AOW, which is not cheap, by the way, in order to be taken on normal, garden variety dives or in order to obtain further training? Why is not training, capability and experience sufficient?

My strong suggestion is that PADI offer an “experienced diver” short-form AOW for divers with, say, more than 100 logged dives, so long as they can pass the knowledge review and demonstrate the dive skills on a single check-out dive. This could get the cost down to well under $100 even including the cost of the dive.

I also see from many conversations and posts on this Board that I am not alone.

Best Regards,
Experienced Divers Everywhere

P.S. My other, much stronger, suggestion is the PADI make Deep, Navigation, and Peak Performance Buoyancy a mandatory part of the Open Water course. (or at least make PPB a mandatory dive for AOW). The divers that I see coming out of OW are, many times, disgraceful in their buoyancy control and trim especially, doing lots of damage to the bottom. But, that is a topic for another thread . . .
 
Being one of those new divers (a dozen dives) that just took the AOW (and in the same class as you), I would definitely say that class was a waste of your time and money for both you and your wife.
 
well said and well written....
 
Welcome to the club. I had did a lot of reading on my own, and held myself to a higher standard during the dives in order to feel I had accomplished anything aside from a ticket punch. The required dives were PPB, Navigation, Deep, and Altitude (Lake Tahoe 6225'), with Search and Recovery available and a couple of others I don't remember.

The thing that impressed me was the lack of preparation on the part of the student, or may be it's just the kids today.

It was a couple of days of diving and since I have all my own equipment and a friend let me use his cabin, it was not a huge expense. I did manage to pick up a buddy from the class, the DMC for the class and I have been diving regularly since.



Bob
------------------------------------
I may be old, but I'm not dead yet.
 
I suspect PADI might be amenable to an "Experienced Diver AOW" if the fee were exactly the same as regular AOW. I can't imagine that the two shops that turned you away after seeing a logbook with 1000 dives sincerely thought you might be a liability on deeper dives; they probably have that policy more as a way of prodding people to take their AOW class than as a way to limit liability exposure. It's all about the money.
 
=guyharrisonphoto;6763565]Dear PADI,

I have been OW certified since 1978 (thanks for my superb training, back then). My training back then included required mastery of gear (doffing and donning at the surface, and underwater without a mask, diving to the bottom and assembling then donning the gear without a mask etc), navigation, exposure to decompression theory and tables for basic deco dives. Since then, I have accumulated about 1000 dives. Because of my training and the group I learned with mentored me, I have done deep diving, planned decompression diving to 225’ on air, wreck and reef diving around the world, night diving, wall diving, strong current drift diving, diving with doubles, and diving that includes a combination of several of the above factors and conditions. I have had to rescue an OOG buddy by breathing him up from 140 feet and through a mandatory deco stop, in the days before octopi and safe seconds. I always carry my log books of my most recent 100 dives.

However, I have now had two shops tell me that, without the “AOW” card, they will not dive me deeper than 60 feet, period, even if I have my log books with me and they can verify my experience by speaking to me. This is of course a small minority of shops. Most shops are glad to have me on the boat once they see my logs or dive with me even once.
Nonetheless, I have now been compelled to take “AOW” and get the card that any diver can get with the first nine dives of their life, none of which need be deeper than 90 feet. It is no exaggeration at all to say that I easily could have taught this course. The instructor was very capable and, at least, had as many dives as I (not the case with many instructors I meet). He gave a fine course; that is not the issue.

I was very displeased to pay $$$ for this course, which has no place at my level of experience (I am fully ready for tech training by now). This is made worse by the fact that “AOW” is the mandatory gateway to further training (Rescue, Tech, etc), just adding and adding to the cost.

Don’t get me wrong. For newly certified divers or those with just a few dives (the other participants had between 5 and 20 dives), the course was beneficial. By the end, there was a marked and noticeable improvement in those divers, mainly because the instructor required peak performance buoyancy as one of the dives and spent some quality time dialing in weights and training proper breath control.

However, for a diver like myself, the course did not offer much except some practice (and I practice my skills regularly during my own diving), and the usual enjoyable camaraderie of divers.

My question is, why are experienced divers forced to get the AOW, which is not cheap, by the way, in order to be taken on normal, garden variety dives or in order to obtain further training? Why is not training, capability and experience sufficient?
Was it truly expensive? Maybe it costs $250.-$300 more that just going out diving. The certification is a 1 time cost used over many years.
My strong suggestion is that PADI offer an “experienced diver” short-form AOW for divers with, say, more than 100 logged dives, so long as they can pass the knowledge review and demonstrate the dive skills on a single check-out dive. This could get the cost down to well under $100 even including the cost of the dive.
We have all seen divers who have hundreds of dives that should not be in the water .Costs to do as you write would still be well above $100. as the instructor needs to be paid,the card itself has to be paid for,entry/boat fees,gear rentals.etc..
I also see from many conversations and posts on this Board that I am not alone.

Best Regards,
Experienced Divers Everywhere

Sorry you had to get placed with what many see wrong with the activity..But the truth of the matter is that you are a rare minority in diving for being active in the activityfor so long . Its all about liabilities now. When you were a 10 year old did you have to wear a helmet when taking a bike ride? Of course not. Now it is LAW in many areas. This country, if not the world, is becoming a nanny state where like it or not ,everything is becoming regulated "for your own good".. I cannot say I agree with it. Being in the industry I see it almost every day where the " I have been diving 40 years" person come in for a refresher and have no idea what they are doing. Recently had an IDC ran at the facility I teach out of. Being an IDCS instructor I sat through some of the presentations and water skill sessions. I quietly spoke to the course director after a pool session about the poor water skills of 1 particular person. That person has been diving for years,was in fact a NAUI DM. In the ow of a quarry that person could not control themselves in the water and either continually floated up or sank with no awareness. That person is not continuing on to the IE ..That person had all kinds of classes/cert cards and such. Shows that cards do not mean much if there is no true experice gained through actually diving.
I really believe that when done to standards the open water course is a good course . It is designed for the mass public who wants to see the pretty fish and thats all, and it is priced that way. Does it get you prepared for North East wreck diving? Of course not. Neither does an advance ow class. Its only a start to give a person experience that they can build on. Once a person gets a cert card its up to them to gain experience by actually going diving and apply what they were shown.
To deliver a course that gives a student a complete skill set not only given in a ow course, but what is delivered in a advance,rescue,deep,navigation would price the activity out of most reach for many. A ow course that costs perhaps $269. for pool and academics and another $200. for the 4 ow dives that usually takes 2 weekends or less ( cost of about $500-$600 total with materials) can now cost as much as $1,500.+
P.S. My other, much stronger, suggestion is the PADI make Deep, Navigation, and Peak Performance Buoyancy a mandatory part of the Open Water course. (or at least make PPB a mandatory dive for AOW).

Again, what will the market bear for this added training in terms of cost? Adding these skill sets will easily add $200.+ to a ow course, plus any boat fees,quarry entry fees,rentals,materials..plus time.
The divers that I see coming out of OW are, many times, disgraceful in their buoyancy control and trim especially, doing lots of damage to the bottom. But, that is a topic for another thread . . .
Not all people coming out of a ow course are that bad. Many are quite good. All depends on what their instructor accepts as " mastery".
 
Oly5050,

I take your point that experience, like "the card" does not necessarily prove much. That is why I suggested the class skill review and one checkout dive so that the instructor could be satisfied that the diver met AOW requirements.

I am not saying OW in its current state is "bad" and especially not that AOW is "bad". In fact, I wanted to convey it is worthwhile for those new divers seeking to kick their skills up a notch, and I saw the proof of that in my course.

Whether the training could be better, or what it should cost for those divers needing it, is not my issue. My point is that experienced and capable divers should be able to devote more of their training $$$ to actually advance their abilities, as opposed to an expensive review course.
 
I paid $300 for SDI deep, night & navigation in order to get AOW. I did the theory but ended up with a tooth infection and couldn't do the cert dives. The dive shop has been less than enthusiastic (actually ignore the posibility) of me making up the cert dives when the classes are taught again. So, after studying the material and practicing the skills extensively I won't pay again for the courses just to get the card for something I've already mastered (way beyond the level of the cert dives). I also got solo training outside the normal SDI channels and now dive mostly shore solo (reason I won't go to Curacao - solo absolutely forbidden even with a card). Not going to waste $300 just to get the AOW card and certainly not going to spend my money with an operation that's anal about AOW, solo or anything else. I sign an effing waiver, endanger no one, am completely self-sufficient, equipment and skillwise - leave me alone. Do places require a night cert for a night dive? I just can't buy this when an OW diver can go right into AOW immediately. I can see looking at a log book for difficult deep dives where conditions warrent it - but requiring a card??? Come on.
 
Let's also be honest. There's a lot of "old school" (and not so old school too) divers with experience who believe there is nothing to learn. Most recreational-only dive instructors from tropical destinations fit that bill. I agree that the curricula from a regular AOW course could prove boring to you or many experienced divers. But Im sure if you had found yourself a good tech instructor and made AOW (I would have gone for Deep Diver specialty through SDI as I can do PADI/SDI/TDI) with him, it would have been an interesting intro to tech course. I would have gladly done such a thing, like give you a tech oriented AOW/Intro to Tech class.

Again, independent instructors seem to be the best bet for that sort of diver.
 
I was very displeased to pay $$$ for this course,

That's sort of the point. A c-card is the carrot (or the stick) used by the certification agencies to get divers to take classes. The classes require training materials, which generates revenue for the agencies and business for the instructors.

They have no financial incentive to offer a shortcut.

Your only real options are to find different dive shops/dive ops or suck it up and take the classes and get the card.

flots.

PS. I rotate though maybe 40 OW class sessions/year with various other shop staff, and quite often learn something new, and that's just OW class. Don't think you know everything. A few classes wouldn't kill you and you'll probably learn something useful.
 
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