AOW Disappointment

[jbd]

Do you really feel that people are "duped, screwed, and aren't taught anything?"

Apparently many do feel that way based on the number of times this kind of thread comes up year after year.

 

[Steve R]

Steve,

I see on your website that you offer Advanced Open Water.

(BTW Seriously, your Op looks really cool.)

Do you really feel that people are "duped, screwed, and aren't taught anything?"

Yes we do offer an AOW course.

Stick around and look for the updated info as the site undergo's it's facelift.

Of course don't be surprised that it is not what most would consider an AOW course, but of course the last thing we aim for is the bottom of the barrel.

There really is no need for another operation like that, and since we do not rely on instruction or gear sales to put food on the table, we are not under any gun to push anyone through any course. Quite honestly we couldn't operate properly any other way, so it's either this way or not at all.

Do I feel people are being duped? There's no 'feel' about it.

How otherwise intelligent people can be had like this, I will honestly never understand. It's criminal, and we've seen it kill people.

As JBD says, this comes up so often I've lost track. When you consider that this course by Padi's own literature is the one that kills more students than all others combined, you really have to stand up and take notice of why this is. It's obvious, to us anyway.

I suggested to Padi that instead of writing a column on it in their rag every once in a while (Which has no bearing on their Instructors Manual), that maybe they should institute some real meat and get serious about their instruction, standards and have a QA department that works and gets real results when these issues come up every week.

They failed to act responsibly or appropriately, again.

 

[southernblue]

Well that certainly got some responses

Yes it was a Padi 5 star shop that i won't name as it seems they provided the minimum standard for the AOW course, yes it was called on their brochure a "course".

My brother and i really looked forward to doing this so called course for a couple of reasons, first, we have access to some great crayfish water deeper than the 18m OW standard, and also wanted to get a deep dive with the instructor to have the deep dive supervised and any problems or tips we could learn from it, and the 100 questions we could ask afterwards. I wanted to see my air consumption difference from shallower dives and work on my ascents.

We also wanted to do the night dive for various reasons, having extra life swimming and crawling all over the place for one, and getting the feeling of not knowing where the hell we were, and managing that situation, again learning from the dive.

We did get a couple of boat credits after we haggled for them, but that really doesn't mean much as we have to drive
100km to get on the boat:shakehead

So after $320 we did a few shore dives and learnt a little more about nav skills, learnt to drain batteries on the scooters and found some seaweed

At least we did get 1 boat dive to 22m with a nice reef full of life and a trip back to the pier:blinking:

 

[AXL72]

So... you did:
1. Navigation
2. DPV
3. Search and Recovery (again? you didn't mention it before)
4. Deep dive - over 60 feet (... barely, i know)

For a total of 4 dives? Your instructor appears to be breaking standards. You should report him to your certification agency if this is so. PM me if you need help on how to do that.

Number 4 = two dives.....deep dive andboat dive. Or am I mis-guiding? Be careful. They may havebarely, and not in the spirit of what was marketed, made good on providing the AOW dives.

 

[Dive-aholic]

You can't combine dives in PADI courses. Dive 4 is either the Deep dive or the Boat dive, but not both. To combine would be to violate standards.

 

[AXL72]

I guess my Padi Advanced Plus card is a figment of my imagination too

omg...u got a PADI advanced plus card? no way!!

how do i go about getting the PADI advanced plus plus plus plus card

 

[AXL72]

You can't combine dives in PADI courses. Dive 4 is either the Deep dive or the Boat dive, but not both. To combine would be to violate standards.

cool...thanks. I had to pose as a question, since I was too lazy to read up on the true standards

 

[AXL72]

Yes we do offer an AOW course.

Stick around and look for the updated info as the site undergo's it's facelift.

Of course don't be surprised that it is not what most would consider an AOW course, but of course the last thing we aim for is the bottom of the barrel.

There really is no need for another operation like that, and since we do not rely on instruction or gear sales to put food on the table, we are not under any gun to push anyone through any course. Quite honestly we couldn't operate properly any other way, so it's either this way or not at all.

Do I feel people are being duped? There's no 'feel' about it.

How otherwise intelligent people can be had like this, I will honestly never understand. It's criminal, and we've seen it kill people.

As JBD says, this comes up so often I've lost track. When you consider that this course by Padi's own literature is the one that kills more students than all others combined, you really have to stand up and take notice of why this is. It's obvious, to us anyway.

I suggested to Padi that instead of writing a column on it in their rag every once in a while (Which has no bearing on their Instructors Manual), that maybe they should institute some real meat and get serious about their instruction, standards and have a QA department that works and gets real results when these issues come up every week.

They failed to act responsibly or appropriately, again.

Thesolution lies in PADI doing random audits of its instructors. Hell, PADI should get ISO 9001 certified and maintain the certification, then you will see things improve to the standards you discuss, which are all fair expectations and a good thing.

 

[AXL72]

If everyone is in agreeance that it's not really "advanced" and teaches you nothing then why do:

1 - agencies put "Advanced" that on their card, if it's not?
2 - charters ops require it on most dives? - Why would they, it's doesn't teach you anything
3 - why would anyone pay anything for what it really is? (Because of point 2, which means you're screwed)
4 - why, if this is in fact wide-spread shop driven mis-information, wouldn't agency's set these shops and instructors straight and make a bold (public) statement to the divers being duped, and inform them what the real deal is?

Can anyone say Pyramid scheme?

Stevo-R

it's called marketing and putting a spin on things.

justlike the head of a company says, "we have helped these people out by providing them an opportunity to find a place where they are happy" after he / she completes a round of layoffs. We all know that laying someone off with a heavy 401 K loan (which cannot be rolled over and hence the hit of early withdrawal taxes) is not called helping. But it is all in the spin.

so PADI has learned some used car salesman marketing. so what?

 

[jviehe]

If everyone is in agreeance that it's not really "advanced" and teaches you nothing then why do:

1 - agencies put "Advanced" that on their card, if it's not?
2 - charters ops require it on most dives? - Why would they, it's doesn't teach you anything
3 - why would anyone pay anything for what it really is? (Because of point 2, which means you're screwed)
4 - why, if this is in fact wide-spread shop driven mis-information, wouldn't agency's set these shops and instructors straight and make a bold (public) statement to the divers being duped, and inform them what the real deal is?

Can anyone say Pyramid scheme?

Compared to a new OW diver, completeing 5 adventure dives does make you advanced. Thats all it means. It is simply part 2 of OW.