You get rediculous stories like this from your LDS and you trust them with your gear?
Better not let Genesis catch wind of this thread...
Anyone know what gives with the Sherwood Wisdom price increase on LP?
- Thread starter love2godeep
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
You get rediculous stories like this from your LDS and you trust them with your gear?
Better not let Genesis catch wind of this thread...
You guys are hilarious.
There has been one - exactly one - instance of "counterfeit" goods at LP, and the evidence is that they were SOLD the couterfeit goods without knowledge.
It had to do with a particular Scubapro BC that they carried, and which apparently the ORIGINAL manufacturer for SP was making AFTER SP pulled their manufacturing contract and was selling as the genuine article.
SP was all over them like a cheap suit on this (as they should be) but no indictment or even seizure of goods ever occurred at LP - and make no mistake about it, doing this with knowledge is indeed an offense (in about a dozen different ways)
As for selling things to LP without paying for them if you're a dive shop, uh, no, it doesn't work like that. The shop doesn't have title until they pay the invoice, and receiving stolen property across state lines is a real serious federal offense. LP wouldn't have gotten away with that for 5 minutes, say much less the many years they've been in business.
Your dive shop is lying to you - what else is new?
There has been one - exactly one - instance of "counterfeit" goods at LP, and the evidence is that they were SOLD the couterfeit goods without knowledge.
It had to do with a particular Scubapro BC that they carried, and which apparently the ORIGINAL manufacturer for SP was making AFTER SP pulled their manufacturing contract and was selling as the genuine article.
SP was all over them like a cheap suit on this (as they should be) but no indictment or even seizure of goods ever occurred at LP - and make no mistake about it, doing this with knowledge is indeed an offense (in about a dozen different ways)
As for selling things to LP without paying for them if you're a dive shop, uh, no, it doesn't work like that. The shop doesn't have title until they pay the invoice, and receiving stolen property across state lines is a real serious federal offense. LP wouldn't have gotten away with that for 5 minutes, say much less the many years they've been in business.
Your dive shop is lying to you - what else is new?
Nice.
I told you. He has a nose for these things.
I told you. He has a nose for these things.
Bob3
Contributor
The value of the dollar is at an all time low right now. Comparing the major foreign exchange rates, it's barely worth 80¢ compared to what it was less than 2 years ago.
I agree no LDS is going to sell their unpaid for Scubapro merchandise to LP without being convicted of a felony.
But it is entirely plausible for a closed LDS or an LDS who has recently relinquished their SP dealership to sell their remaining SP inventory to LP. At anything above 50% of the MSRP, it is more cost effective to sell to LP than to ship it back to SP. And if the shop went belly up, whoever is liquidating the assets will be concerned with getting maximum cash for the inventory, not with honoring the former LDS's sales agreement with SP.
The problem on line sales present for a major manufactuer is that on line sales steal business and profits from the LDS owners that comprise the bulk of their dealer network. So if a company markets heavily through on-line dealers like LP, the local dive shops have no incentive to be dealers. They do not have the volume of sales to compete with large on-line sellers like LP as required discount pricing allows them no margin to recover the costs of maintaining a showroom and an inventory while making a relatively small volume of sales to local customers.
With heavy emphasis on on-line sales, the manufacturer would still sell the same and most likley even more equipment initially, but over time as LDS's dropped their dealerships, there would be fewer and fewer places for customers to try on the products or even view the items in person. At the same time, there would be fewer dealers around to provide warranty service or replacement and similarly there would be fewer and fewer shops using the company's products in their OW training and rental business where brand loyalty frequently develops in divers.
For a new company on-lines sales and discount pricing can be a means of gaining market share. But in the long term, uncontrolled on-line sales will actually hurt sales for an established manufacturer with an established dealer network as customer service inevitably suffers.
Low price is a factor in sales, no doubt about it, but sustained growth and sales requires good customer service and on-line sales are just not condusive to good customer service. It does not matter how little you paid for a reg if you cannot get timely and quality service for it or if you have to replace it in a couple years because parts are no longer available.
People Express is an excellent example of the need to maintain good customer service. When People Express started their airline they offerred excellent fares and good, if no frills, customer service. They made tons of money and rapidly expanded and for a few years were the most profitable airline in the country. But due to training issues and philosphical differneces with staff from another airline they acquired (Frontier), customer service fell off, and even though fares remained low, customers went elsewhere for better service and bankrupted the airline. The business lesson learned was that low prices were just not enough to sustain growth in the absence of good customer service.
But it is entirely plausible for a closed LDS or an LDS who has recently relinquished their SP dealership to sell their remaining SP inventory to LP. At anything above 50% of the MSRP, it is more cost effective to sell to LP than to ship it back to SP. And if the shop went belly up, whoever is liquidating the assets will be concerned with getting maximum cash for the inventory, not with honoring the former LDS's sales agreement with SP.
The problem on line sales present for a major manufactuer is that on line sales steal business and profits from the LDS owners that comprise the bulk of their dealer network. So if a company markets heavily through on-line dealers like LP, the local dive shops have no incentive to be dealers. They do not have the volume of sales to compete with large on-line sellers like LP as required discount pricing allows them no margin to recover the costs of maintaining a showroom and an inventory while making a relatively small volume of sales to local customers.
With heavy emphasis on on-line sales, the manufacturer would still sell the same and most likley even more equipment initially, but over time as LDS's dropped their dealerships, there would be fewer and fewer places for customers to try on the products or even view the items in person. At the same time, there would be fewer dealers around to provide warranty service or replacement and similarly there would be fewer and fewer shops using the company's products in their OW training and rental business where brand loyalty frequently develops in divers.
For a new company on-lines sales and discount pricing can be a means of gaining market share. But in the long term, uncontrolled on-line sales will actually hurt sales for an established manufacturer with an established dealer network as customer service inevitably suffers.
Low price is a factor in sales, no doubt about it, but sustained growth and sales requires good customer service and on-line sales are just not condusive to good customer service. It does not matter how little you paid for a reg if you cannot get timely and quality service for it or if you have to replace it in a couple years because parts are no longer available.
People Express is an excellent example of the need to maintain good customer service. When People Express started their airline they offerred excellent fares and good, if no frills, customer service. They made tons of money and rapidly expanded and for a few years were the most profitable airline in the country. But due to training issues and philosphical differneces with staff from another airline they acquired (Frontier), customer service fell off, and even though fares remained low, customers went elsewhere for better service and bankrupted the airline. The business lesson learned was that low prices were just not enough to sustain growth in the absence of good customer service.
LP sells more merchandise than most MANUFACTURERS in a year.
Without them most of the scuba manfuacturers that they sell would be out of business - I'll bet they move 20% - or more - of the total merchandise of most of their brands in the United States.
Nobody dares ignore that kind of volume.
Second, People Express didn't die due poor customer service. On the contrary; I flew them all the time, and their service exceeded that which I got from any other airline, simply due to the fact that there was no futzing around - you showed up, got on the plane, chose your own seat and paid once in the air!
What killed them is the same thing that killed a lot of other airlines at the time - a fuel-cost spike that buried the low-margin, low-overhead carriers, along with Newark, which was a horrible hellhole of an airport at the time.
Without them most of the scuba manfuacturers that they sell would be out of business - I'll bet they move 20% - or more - of the total merchandise of most of their brands in the United States.
Nobody dares ignore that kind of volume.
Second, People Express didn't die due poor customer service. On the contrary; I flew them all the time, and their service exceeded that which I got from any other airline, simply due to the fact that there was no futzing around - you showed up, got on the plane, chose your own seat and paid once in the air!
What killed them is the same thing that killed a lot of other airlines at the time - a fuel-cost spike that buried the low-margin, low-overhead carriers, along with Newark, which was a horrible hellhole of an airport at the time.
Ummm.... no. It's pretty clear what killed People Express. Harvard still runs a business simulator based on People Express to demonstrate the concepts involved. People Express could have been successful long term by raising it's fares slightly (they would have still been relatively low) and focusing on maintaining good customer service. People Express served a lot more than just the Newark area and increases in fuel costs had nothing to do with the real problems that killed the company.
In their initial years they were also an excellent example of the positive things that happen when you let the workers in the oprganization use their expertise and have a say in mangement decisions. THey were also an excellent example of what happens when an employee run company loses the shared vision required to make it successful.
Given your focus on the whole Divers Union thing, you could learn a lot from what really happened at People Express. I like the concepts you believe in, to a point, but you really need to take a less extreme and larger systems view of things if you are ever going to make them work.
Have you ever considered being somewhat open minded about opinions that differ from yours? have you ever cnsidered just listening and not always trying to constantly push your own agenda?
In their initial years they were also an excellent example of the positive things that happen when you let the workers in the oprganization use their expertise and have a say in mangement decisions. THey were also an excellent example of what happens when an employee run company loses the shared vision required to make it successful.
Given your focus on the whole Divers Union thing, you could learn a lot from what really happened at People Express. I like the concepts you believe in, to a point, but you really need to take a less extreme and larger systems view of things if you are ever going to make them work.
Have you ever considered being somewhat open minded about opinions that differ from yours? have you ever cnsidered just listening and not always trying to constantly push your own agenda?
are nothing other than opinions.
I listen continually, and filter that which is backed by facts.
BTW, Harvard B-school grads brought us the implosion of the markets in '00, and the insanity of the 90s. I can't tell you how many of those guys paraded through my shop during those years and were all gung-ho to come in and give me a "makeover" to be "more successful."
Of course reality set in somewhere around April/May of '00, and heh, guess what? All those B-school types were shown to be emporers without clothes, and the streets are littered with the smoking remains of their "formulas."
P.E. never changed much of anything in their service levels or customer focus from the first time I set foot on their planes until the last. They were run out of business by an economic change in their fuel costs, coupled with an intense cross-subsidization war they could not fight (since they had no means to DO cross-subsidization) effectively.
I did quite a bit of study on the PE failure for my own education, since I really liked their service and it was damn competitive.
They ultimately failed due to being run out of town on a rail by cross-subsidization, fuel cost increases, and an economic recession that buried them, along with a failure to use their strengths through a marketing campaign to attack their rival's ability to fund their cross-subsidization.
Their general model - run the airline like an intercity bus service - was a good one. But their strength was also their downfall, in that the inability to shift money around and cross-subsidize routes and seats (since all were sold at the same price) made it easy for other airlines to cannibalize their sales. Unfortunately PE failed to eat the other guy's lunch in reverse - they could have chewed United, Delta and American and spat their bloody remains back out had they gone after the "last minute" business air traveller, who was (and still is) paying 10x their fares.
Without those revenues, the "big guys" could have never attacked them as they did; offering "guaranteed seats" at a 50% premium would have changed the world for them, and up until 9/11 at least, they probably would still be with us.
Unfortunately, they did not and lacked the depth to be able to take the other guys on in any other effective way. Thus, they went "poof."
Of course today PE would be a total non-starter, as their complete lack of screening or identification prior to boarding (other than maknig it through the causeway metal detectors!) would be 100% unacceptable in today's post-9/11 world. But that was a big part of their success story - a cash-fare airline that ran like a city bus - get on, sit down, pay your fare once the door is closed and you're a captive audience and off 'ya go. Nobody knows who is on the manifest, nobody knows who you are. You're just a guy with a $100 bill in his wallet who wants to get from place "A" to "B".
Virtually all of their service hubbed at Newark though, and it was a HORRIBLE terminal at the time. Easily the worst of any I've ever been in, and I've been in a lot of 'em.
Back to scuba stuff...
Consider LP's annual sales, then consider any one of the major manfuacturers. Remove LP's contribution to their production. Most of the brands they carry would see an immediate 20% reduction in sales.
Many - perhaps most - of those manufacturers would never survive that reduction.
I listen continually, and filter that which is backed by facts.
BTW, Harvard B-school grads brought us the implosion of the markets in '00, and the insanity of the 90s. I can't tell you how many of those guys paraded through my shop during those years and were all gung-ho to come in and give me a "makeover" to be "more successful."
Of course reality set in somewhere around April/May of '00, and heh, guess what? All those B-school types were shown to be emporers without clothes, and the streets are littered with the smoking remains of their "formulas."
P.E. never changed much of anything in their service levels or customer focus from the first time I set foot on their planes until the last. They were run out of business by an economic change in their fuel costs, coupled with an intense cross-subsidization war they could not fight (since they had no means to DO cross-subsidization) effectively.
I did quite a bit of study on the PE failure for my own education, since I really liked their service and it was damn competitive.
They ultimately failed due to being run out of town on a rail by cross-subsidization, fuel cost increases, and an economic recession that buried them, along with a failure to use their strengths through a marketing campaign to attack their rival's ability to fund their cross-subsidization.
Their general model - run the airline like an intercity bus service - was a good one. But their strength was also their downfall, in that the inability to shift money around and cross-subsidize routes and seats (since all were sold at the same price) made it easy for other airlines to cannibalize their sales. Unfortunately PE failed to eat the other guy's lunch in reverse - they could have chewed United, Delta and American and spat their bloody remains back out had they gone after the "last minute" business air traveller, who was (and still is) paying 10x their fares.
Without those revenues, the "big guys" could have never attacked them as they did; offering "guaranteed seats" at a 50% premium would have changed the world for them, and up until 9/11 at least, they probably would still be with us.
Unfortunately, they did not and lacked the depth to be able to take the other guys on in any other effective way. Thus, they went "poof."
Of course today PE would be a total non-starter, as their complete lack of screening or identification prior to boarding (other than maknig it through the causeway metal detectors!) would be 100% unacceptable in today's post-9/11 world. But that was a big part of their success story - a cash-fare airline that ran like a city bus - get on, sit down, pay your fare once the door is closed and you're a captive audience and off 'ya go. Nobody knows who is on the manifest, nobody knows who you are. You're just a guy with a $100 bill in his wallet who wants to get from place "A" to "B".
Virtually all of their service hubbed at Newark though, and it was a HORRIBLE terminal at the time. Easily the worst of any I've ever been in, and I've been in a lot of 'em.
Back to scuba stuff...
Consider LP's annual sales, then consider any one of the major manfuacturers. Remove LP's contribution to their production. Most of the brands they carry would see an immediate 20% reduction in sales.
Many - perhaps most - of those manufacturers would never survive that reduction.
Similar threads
