Any thoughts on wreck looting?

[tomfcrist]

My personal fantasy find is a duffle bag of cash that was dumped by fleeing drunk dealers. That will definitely find its way to my car trunk.

Duffle bags don’t hold that much cash....I’ll take the square grouper.

 

[CT-Rich]

Duffle bags don’t hold that much cash....I’ll take the square grouper.

Depends on three factors. First, the size of the duffle bag. Second how the bills are packed (shrink wrapped bricks, preferably) Third, denomination. Twenties and fifties are convenient, preferably used, non sequential bills.

And let’s face it, it’s a windfall, so there is no reason to get greedy.

 

[Jared0425]

I thought it was the carrier that was sunk by the Japanese in WW2. Yea these guys were in the wrong and got what they deserved. I'm sure the UK has a permit system to save endangered artifacts from wrecks.

 

[shoredivr]

Well, Reading many replies here makes me wish you will never come dive our local wrecks here Many ww1/ww2 wrecks, still many artifacts but they STAY there! If we see you take anything except photos/videos you can forget getting back on the boat. We strictly enforce this and we check other boats stopping at our marina. We will and have called the police and banned vessels from the marina sadly because of this. Martin reason we don't report new findings (as is required in Sweden) is that once reported, all the info is made public. And the Danish sure seem to love to plunder our wrecks

There are two beautiful wrecks from the War of 1812 off Hamilton, in 300 ft of cold black water in Lake Ontario, that are deteriorating under the invasive quagga mussel’s infestation. This is a great example of the two sides of the coin.

Civil Disobedience Wreck Diving | DIVER magazine


“Between 1975 and 2012 seven different expeditions photographed the wrecks using ROVs. The first video of Hamilton was shot in 1975. During one of those early expeditions an ROV’s umbilical, or perhaps a heavy barge anchor, became entangled in the Hamilton’s forward mast, tearing it off and dropping it on the lakebed. In 1980 a Jacques Cousteau expedition filmed the Hamilton using Calypso’s submersible diving saucer, Soucoup, which collided with Hamilton’s figurehead causing minor damage. Other damage during subsequent expeditions has also been documented. And I mention these incidents not to be critical but simply to make the point that despite the best of intentions “stuff” happens. The only way to avoid such incidents is to not visit the wrecks and if that’s the plan then surely we must ask why we would bother to protect them at all?”



“Both Hamilton and Scourge sit upright and are intact though their timbers are water logged and spongy to the touch, which no one knew because neither ship had ever been touched by a human hand since their sinkings. At the time of our dives quagga mussels covered mostly the upper facing side of most surfaces, especially metal, such as the tops of cannons. This bi-valve mollusk is non-native to the Great Lakes and is widespread, even in this deep water. Our team saw no human remains at any time. We agreed from the beginning that nothing would be touched or removed and we saw no evidence that other scuba divers had been on the wrecks prior to our dives in 2000-2002. And to the best of my knowledge no other technical divers have dived them since. If that’s the case then only five divers have ever visited Hamilton and Scourge. Many more humans have walked on the moon, and that’s a shame.

These beautiful wrecks are like the sunken pirate ship a child imagines. They sit squarely on their keels, cannons run up and ready to fire, swords and boarding axes crossed over each gun port, ready for the crew to repel boarders. All that’s missing is a treasure chest guarded by a giant octopus. For all that’s real about these wrecks, and perhaps for some of what isn’t, we wanted to dive Hamilton and Scourge. They are deep and challenging and for us they were our technical diving Mount Everest. Nothing we’ve dived since compares.

These treasures, I believe, have been lost to humanity by a misguided policy that’s been successful at isolating them from the diving public. They’ve been relegated to obscurity and largely forgotten. In their deep-water graves they are out of sight and out of mind and they continue to decay, suffering the ravages of time and encroachment by an ever-thickening layer of quagga mussels. To the best of my knowledge a feasibility study begun decades ago to consider options remains incomplete to this day. The city’s stewardship is marked by inaction and in my view this is a violation of the public trust. If this doesn’t change the wrecks will be lost forever. On this bicentennial occasion I say it’s time for action.”

The Hamilton and Scourge Project: Past, Present and Future | DIVER magazine


A rebuttal from the City of Hamilton, Ontario.

 

[Jared0425]

The reason why the timbers are rotting and getting weaker is that they are exposed to more sunlight, weight from mussels, and possibly change in the chemical makeup of the water....

Waiting for a approval to dive them in 2019......

 

[shoredivr]

The reason why the timbers are rotting and getting weaker is that they are exposed to more sunlight, weight from mussels, and possibly change in the chemical makeup of the water....

Waiting for a approval to dive them in 2019......

Oh that would be a great dive!

 

[Russjstewart]

Wood can be attacked by marine borers which has been a problem since the first log went down a river. The other big problem, and I probably have the science a bit wrong here, so my apologies. When wood is left underwater the cellulose that makes up about half the structure can be attacked by anaerobic bacteria, which breaks the cellulose down. This makes the wood more porous and permeable to water. The wood keeps its shape but if allowed to dry out will breakup or collapse. This is why conservators keep the wood wet until it can be stabilised

 

[Schwob]

UK investigates WW2 shipwreck looting claims

 

[tomfcrist]

So a couple weeks ago I was diving the USS Monitor....the level of damage done by NOAA while “Preserving” this wreck was well known to me, but the amount of pure trash they left on the wreck was astonishing. Survey slates, survey markers etc were littered about the site.

It’s hard to make people take the rules “seriously” when the governing body of conservation of our wrecks does this crap.

That being said, I see nothing wrong with salvage of wrecks that 1) aren’t historically important. 2)aren’t war graves.

 

[Kay Dee]

Depends on three factors. First, the size of the duffle bag. Second how the bills are packed (shrink wrapped bricks, preferably) Third, denomination. Twenties and fifties are convenient, preferably used, non sequential bills.

And let’s face it, it’s a windfall, so there is no reason to get greedy.

Right on, brother!