Any Information About A Discover Scuba Death in Grand Turk?

[DandyDon]

The destination and businesses involved in such accidents try to hide as much as possible since it'd be bad for business, the cruise lines do the same, and even our US Consulates can say little if anything because of diplomacy. If it'd been a celebrity's child, we'd be getting all the updates - but since it was just one of us, it's challenging to get info. I'd rather not dismiss it as Dirty Laundry as it was not a simple case of people drown sometimes. DSD is the ultimate in trust-me diving and more exposure is needed to protect tourists who are lied to on every turn.

 

[ScubaNurse758]

Just wondering if anyone has gotten official word from Carnival or another official source about cancelling their contract with Oasis Divers? Not that cruise critic isn't reputable, but I just logged onto my Carnival account and SCUBA is still listed on the Grand Turk shore excursions list and a google search only reveals a person on cruise critic who says they recieved an email to that effect. Personally my fiance and I dove with Oasis Divers in November and found them very professional and courteous (the DM from the Dominican Republic even carried my fiances dive bag back to the port). Underwater, I was impressed with the dive leaders ability to deal with a very unprepared diver who resembled a floundering fish rather than a certified diver. He handled her well and still showed the rest of us the many sights to see on our dives.
Also, I would be surprised for such a lucrative contract to be severed when there appears to be such a small amount of confirmed information concerning the events that transpired. Yes there was an accident but there are many situations that even if there was a 1:1 ratio or a 16:1 ratio nothing could be done to save the person. Just my thoughts.

Jordan.

 

[tinybubblesinmyblood]

Suspended might perhaps be a better word for it.

Oasis (a PADI store) are still running water tours like snorkeling for Carnival and Holland America but not any diving operations since the day after the accident. It would seem that all certified diving, all DSD activities in addition to "power snorkeling" have been suspended for at least a month by Carnival, with DSD probably a lot longer or maybe forever. Holland America has also made this announcement via e-mail to their clients that had signed up for diving. At least 4 of the Oasis Instructor staff seem to have left Island so it may be that Oasis or Carnival has suspended diving activities for the cruise ships for the time being. You are correct that the diving shore excursion option is still up on Carnival's website but dive boats are not going out for cruise ship diving tours by Oasis on Grand Turk.

PADI guidelines for DSD (Discover Scuba Diving) are for 1 instructor to a MAX of 4, not 1 to 8 and that's for "confined water", not ocean where the accident occurred. It's ultimately up to the Instructors but I would think that having 15 to 16 people in the water, like 20+' of water all doing DSD with only 2 Instructors in the water is a pretty indefensible position from a risk management view point. No matter how good the Instructors are. There's a BIG difference both legally and practically between a certified diver (no matter how crappy) and someone taking a DSD in a resort situation. In my opinion, based on observation, this was an accident waiting to happen and a tragedy that should and could have been avoided.

Accidents do unfortunately happen, that's why we have insurance but this one just isn't right. No 17 YO should drown in 20 feet of water while taking a DSD. I have heard mention he lied on his medical release form (about having asthma). Don't care, still shouldn't have happened. No matter how much lucre may be involved. Again just my opinion.

The victim was in a coma when he left Grand Turk. Rumor has it he died later, which may be a blessing to his family. Sorry if that sounds harsh but if he survived there would likely have been substantial brain damage if any of the stories I have heard are any where near accurate. My sincere condolences to his family.

 

[Laurie S.]

Here's a link to a website that belongs to one of the other divers on the excursion. Based on what she writes on the page, it appears that they didn't do a rollcall after the dive. Sad....

Gina's 365 Day Gratitude Challenge: Scuba

 

[tinybubblesinmyblood]

I can confirm by way of a Carnival Manager that life support was turned of and the 17 YO victim died shortly after. While researching this accident for information I came across an item that simply astounds me. The DOHSA or Death On High Seas Act. There is very little liability on Carnival's shoulders since damages are limited to income potential. In a case where a 3 YO drown on Carnival's private Island, with no life guard on duty, they got away with a "sorry, your child died" letter. I find both these deaths to be senseless , avoidable and I am outraged that there is no penalty to the cruise line at all for it.

 

[DandyDon]

I can confirm by way of a Carnival Manager that life support was turned of and the 17 YO victim died shortly after. While researching this accident for information I came across an item that simply astounds me. The DOHSA or Death On High Seas Act. There is very little liability on Carnival's shoulders since damages are limited to income potential. In a case where a 3 YO drown on Carnival's private Island, with no life guard on duty, they got away with a "sorry, your child died" letter. I find both these deaths to be senseless , avoidable and I am outraged that there is no penalty to the cruise line at all for it.

Well, the cruise lines register their ships in other countries to save bucks in any way. If the ship calls on an US port, there are some enforceable regulations, but not much for what happens at sea or in other countries. Cruisers often don't realize it, but you got to protect yourself so much traveling out of the US, or by other means. The US State Dept has some cautions, but they're mostly ignored.

 

[DandyDon]

From : scuba : Cruise Law News
And I see this thread being referenced and linked....

Under-Staffed Diving Excursion Leads to Death of 17 Year Old Carnival Cruise Passenger in Grand Turk

Posted on April 16, 2012 by Jim Walker
The Royal Turks and Caicos Islands Police website states that a 17 year old U.S. tourist was pulled from the waters off Grand Turk in what the police call a diving accident on April 4, 2012.
Professor Ross Klein's website and members of Cruise Critic state that the incident involved a teenage from the Carnival Pride cruise ship who was on a Carnival sanctioned excursion with Oasis Divers, which advertises:
"Our professional and courteous staff makes sure your experience is unforgettable. Many of our guides have been diving these waters for years and have an astounding knowledge of the reef and dive sites. Our divemasters take care of all the details to ensure your time with Oasis Divers is everything you’ve dreamed of in a dive shop. From setting up your equipment each day to detailed dive site descriptions and briefings, Oasis Divers prides itself on our fantastic team. We dive in small groups and guarantee personalized service from your divemaster."
According to Cruise Critic, the young man went into the water in a group of 16 divers with only 2 instructors in the water. If the Cruise Critic information is correct, a ratio of 8 divers to 1 instructor is grossly insufficient and probably constitutes criminal malfeasance - particularly if there are new or inexperienced divers.

Wasn't this reported here as a Discover class? If so, then 8 to 1 is absurd...!!

The young cruise passenger was treated at a local hospital and then flown to the U.S. where he died at a hospital.

The police report also mentions two recent snorkeling deaths on the island, including a 80 year old tourist and and a 62 year old described as a cruise passenger.
A scuba message board discusses these cases and suggests that Carnival and Holland America Cruise Lines suspended their contracts with the diving excursion company.
Last week we reported on a Celebrity cruise passenger from the Equinox who died during a diving excursion in Cozumel.

 

[Rhone Man]

There is a lot of heat but not much light in this thread. I have yet to see a death certificate which lists 'lack of adequate supervision' as the cause of death. Whatever may have been the surrounding circumstances, analysis is futile until one knows the proximate cause of death. For all I have seen on this thread, it may have been a brain aneurism or something else unforeseeable.

I appreciate the dive op got their contract cancelled and that implies some belief of fault. However, I take that with a slight grain of salt. Whenever adverse publicity arises, cruise lines are very quick to "do something" so that they show speed of response in subsequent dealings with the press.

I can confirm by way of a Carnival Manager that life support was turned of and the 17 YO victim died shortly after. While researching this accident for information I came across an item that simply astounds me. The DOHSA or Death On High Seas Act. There is very little liability on Carnival's shoulders since damages are limited to income potential. In a case where a 3 YO drown on Carnival's private Island, with no life guard on duty, they got away with a "sorry, your child died" letter. I find both these deaths to be senseless , avoidable and I am outraged that there is no penalty to the cruise line at all for it.

That seems to me to be a very American approach to accidents. If a person dies there must be somebody who can be sued for it! Let's wait for some facts shall we? Unfortunately 17 year olds do sometimes die, and 3 year olds do sometimes down - and it is tragic in a way that those who have not been involved in such a death cannot truly comprehend. But the tendency to try and sue the **** out of anyone connected with the incident and leverage the tears of a jury into a big award of damages has never yet brought anyone back to life.

 

[Laurie S.]

Other participants in that discover scuba excursion have reported that there were 16 students and 2 instructors in the water. It doesn't matter how the poor boy died, the operator was in serious violation of PADI standards for discover scuba classes with the 8:1 ratio. Although I can't confirm it yet, it appears that they did not do a rollcall and didn't notice he was missing until someone realized there were only 15 passengers onboard. I can confirm that this same operator did not do a rollcall in March when I was onboard.

---------- Post added April 17th, 2012 at 12:04 PM ----------

Got some more info, turns out the ratio was 5:1, still wrong. Here's a quote from someone who was on the excursion:

"I didn't know anyone else on the excursion. There were 4 staff and 16 tourists. One woman opted not to dive. One staff member never entered the water for an in-water staff to tourist ratio of 1 to 5. We all went in pretty much together, going down the rope one by one. I struggled to sink enough,kept drifting upward and was uncomfortable with the instructor pushing me down on my back so much in his efforts to get me at the right water level, so I left the water early. I don't really know what else happened under water. Everyone looked alike and I was so busy trying to see the reef life. I hope this helps. Frankly, my feeling is that if I ever do something like this again it will be one-on-one, probably hand-in-hand."

 

[RiverRat]

How sad. I remember my Discover scuba in Saint Martin. Myself and 2 others got lucky as we were the "last 3" divers and got one guide assigned to us. We had a great time and the DM/Instructor was very good, patient and caring. I recall looking around at the larger groups (can't be sure of the numbers) though and it looked like complete chaos. To many divers to be watched by too few divemasters.