Any feedback on Seafrogs for A7IV + 90mm Macro?

[Pyndle]

Hi,
Anyone has this setup for macro and got feedback please?
Are all functions accessible?

PS: I know the seafrogs built quality is not great (had one on my A6500 for hundreds of dives) but I don't want to overspend. I know the risks. What I don't know is what functions are not accessible

 

[Barmaglot]

I have it with a SeaFrogs A6700, but it's the same port system as A7IV. Unlike the A6xxx housing, a focus gear is available, but it is not terribly useful, as it takes a lot of knob revolutions to make any meaningful change. The primary use case is to lock focus at minimum distance and then move the camera until the subject comes into focus. It is also quite finicky to set up, as it is really easy to bump the focus ring into the back (MF-only) position while inserting the camera into the housing. In case you don't have the lens yet; the big focus ring on it moves backwards and forwards - in the forward position, the lens autofocuses, but if you choose MF or DMF in the camera menu, you can use it for manual focus, but in the backward position, it is locked in MF mode, and you can't AF at all. The side button (I believe it is focus hold; never actually used it) is not accessible, and neither are the two switches (stabilization on/off and focus range limiter), so take care not to bump the latter switch while setting up the camera, or it can be a very frustrating dive.

Regarding AF, I've used it with A6300 and A6700, and the experience is radically different - on the former, it is slow and requires at least several seconds of the camera and subject being stationary in order to focus. A moving subject - say, a small nudibranch on some seaweed swaying in a current - is basically impossible to focus on. On A6700, it focuses near instantly and tracks moving subjects reliably. I believe, although I don't have personal experience with, that the A6700 experience is shared with A7RV, A1 and A7CR/A7CII, whereas all the older bodies, including A7IV, are closer to the A6300/A6500 in this respect.

 

[Pyndle]

Thanks for the feedback. I think manual focus is quite useful, I can't imagine shooting macro with AF but might be surprised.

I'm not sure I fully understand the issue you mention about the focus ring bumped into the back, is it only when inserting the lens?

I don't have the 90mm macro yet so not sure about AF speed, but the A7IV is light years ahead of the A6500 on other lenses for wildilfe. But I think with macro AF is always weird, I prefer manual set at min focus distance and then I move the camera back and forth.

 

[Barmaglot]

Thanks for the feedback. I think manual focus is quite useful, I can't imagine shooting macro with AF but might be surprised.

Maybe it's a matter of personal preference, but I've always used AF for macro.

I'm not sure I fully understand the issue you mention about the focus ring bumped into the back, is it only when inserting the lens?

Correct. There are no guiding marks for positioning the gear on the lens, and it is really easy to pull it back while inserting the camera. I've resorted to inserting the camera without the port mounted, aligning the lens gear with the driving cog in the housing, making sure that the lens ring is in the AF position, and then mounting the port.

I don't have the 90mm macro yet so not sure about AF speed, but the A7IV is light years ahead of the A6500 on other lenses for wildilfe. But I think with macro AF is always weird, I prefer manual set at min focus distance and then I move the camera back and forth.

Prior to the A1 release, many underwater photographers considered the 90mm AF to be unusable. I have used it with good results on A6300, but it was definitely challenging. I couldn't get it to work on blackwater dives at all. A6700 changed all that, it's like night and day.

 

[Barmaglot]

Oh, I just remembered - specifically for A7IV, SeaFrogs is no longer the only budget game in town. AOI has this:

AOI UH-A7IV - UNDERWATER CAMERA HOUSINGS & ACCESSORIES - PRODUCTS | AOI LTD.

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="width: 100%;"><colgroup><col /><col /></colgroup> <tbody> <tr style="background-color: #f5f5f5;"> <td colspan="2"> <p style="text-align: center;">MODEL NUMBER</p> </td> <td style="text-align:

www.aoi-uw.com

European sites list it at €1,569, which is, at first glance, significantly more than SeaFrogs, but it includes a TTL- and HSS-capable flash trigger, a vacuum system, and integrated handles - adding a tray, a Leak Sentinel and an s-TURTLE to a SeaFrogs A7IV NG would push it to almost the same price. There is also a handy little depth gauge on it, which is a fairly unique feature - the only similar offering that comes to mind is Marelux's smart viewfinder, which is an expensive accessory to a much more expensive housing system.

 

[Pyndle]

Oh I see what you mean about the positionning, thanks. A bit annoying but not a big deal I guess. Those lens + ring inserts into the port have always been finicky anyways, regardless of the lens/port.

I wonder what they used for underwater if not for the 90mm, I don't think there's any lens that is better.

But back to the A7 IV + Seafrogs, I haven't seen anoying publishing a review except the videos from seafrogs, which I found surprising because it's quite a popular camera.

That's a bit pricey for AOI, I will pay 870 eur for the seafrogs + port + vaccum system (delivery fee and taxes included). I already have a tray but that costs 20 eur anyways. It makes it expensive for the trigger.
Also I sold my strobes, I'm only gonna go with video lights so I'm not gonna use any trigger (+ they're so overpriced it's insane, that is such a basic piece of electronics, s-Turtle is a rip off).

 

[Barmaglot]

I wonder what they used for underwater if not for the 90mm, I don't think there's any lens that is better.

Adapted Canon 105mm was popular at the time. Recently Tamron has released a 90mm E-mount macro lens that is getting good reviews.

That's a bit pricey for AOI, I will pay 870 eur for the seafrogs + port + vaccum system (delivery fee and taxes included). I already have a tray but that costs 20 eur anyways. It makes it expensive for the trigger.

Are you considering the SeaFrogs VPS-100 vacuum system, or the Leak Sentinel? Keep in mind that the VPS-100 leaks underwater - not initially, but after 70-80 dives or so, its seals degrade. The AOI housing also has considerably better ergonomics, with knobs and a thumb AF trigger positioned to be used while holding the tray handles.

Also I sold my strobes, I'm only gonna go with video lights so I'm not gonna use any trigger (+ they're so overpriced it's insane, that is such a basic piece of electronics, s-Turtle is a rip off).

I have tried shooting stills with video lights, it didn't work out well. They're serviceable for macro, although there's still the issue of scaring away anything that has eyes and can move, but wide-angle - may as well use natural light. As for triggers, it's a low-volume electronic item that requires reverse-engineering camera flash communication protocols and integrating with various underwater flashes; there is no way to do that on the cheap.

 

[hilljo88]

More on the SONY 90 mm: it's very sharp and compares favorably with the other major systems' macro lenses in this range ( Canon's 100 mm and Nikon's 105 mm). The SONY 50 f 2.8 macro is not nearly as well thought of and almost impossible to focus successfully underwater. Some folks have adapted the Canon 60 macro with good results. As Barmaglot points out, the 90 mm has a physical "clutch' at the end of the lens to manually switch from AF to MF. This is very handy for surface macro shots of plants and bugs, but not accessible in an underwater housing. The major complaint with the 90 mm is that it tends to "hunt" for focus underwater. I have found two things that help a lot: first, it does well with a bright focus light. And second, there is a range delimiter switch on the side of the lens. You can set the range to 0.28m-0.5m, 0.5m-infinity, or "full". Here's a shot taken with the lens on an older A7R3 which does not have the newest AI enhanced AF system. I think the combination does fine for macro.

 

[Pyndle]

Are you considering the SeaFrogs VPS-100 vacuum system, or the Leak Sentinel? Keep in mind that the VPS-100 leaks underwater - not initially, but after 70-80 dives or so, its seals degrade. The AOI housing also has considerably better ergonomics, with knobs and a thumb AF trigger positioned to be used while holding the tray handles.

Seafrogs system. I don' think it's meant to go underwater though, prehaps that's why it leaked?
What degraded exactly? The o-ring?

More on the SONY 90 mm: it's very sharp and compares favorably with the other major systems' macro lenses in this range ( Canon's 100 mm and Nikon's 105 mm). The SONY 50 f 2.8 macro is not nearly as well thought of and almost impossible to focus successfully underwater. Some folks have adapted the Canon 60 macro with good results. As Barmaglot points out, the 90 mm has a physical "clutch' at the end of the lens to manually switch from AF to MF. This is very handy for surface macro shots of plants and bugs, but not accessible in an underwater housing. The major complaint with the 90 mm is that it tends to "hunt" for focus underwater. I have found two things that help a lot: first, it does well with a bright focus light. And second, there is a range delimiter switch on the side of the lens. You can set the range to 0.28m-0.5m, 0.5m-infinity, or "full". Here's a shot taken with the lens on an older A7R3 which does not have the newest AI enhanced AF system. I think the combination does fine for macro.View attachment 894806

Thanks for the feedback, it's a nice shot!
Do you set it on 0.28-0.5m while diving? I'm assuming you can't change that underwater?

 

[hilljo88]

"Do you set it on 0.28-0.5m while diving? I'm assuming you can't change that underwater?"

You do not have access to the switch once the housing is closed.