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Anti-Fogging Treatments for New Masks. (a comparison of techniques)

Discussion in 'General Scuba Equipment Discussions' started by lowviz, Feb 23, 2019.

  1. lowviz

    lowviz Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Northern Delaware or the New Jersey Turnpike
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    @MAKO Spearguns (who made all this possible)

    Dano, your lovely low-volume masks may need nothing more than a series of aggressive dishwashing. However, dishwashing is also very effective in removing your company logo. Life can be a b*&%h. :wink:

    Anyway, getting ready to start all the suggested treatments. Let's wrap this puppy up...
     
    chillyinCanada likes this.
  2. lowviz

    lowviz Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Northern Delaware or the New Jersey Turnpike
    6,339
    2,944
    113
    Need a day or two to get everything in order for testing. But testing should proceed seamlessly. (Up-front experimental design is everything.)

    As for the flame test and its possible compromise of the glass lens: Just paid $60 for the ANSI ISEA Z87.1-2015 standard from the source. 64 pages printed out and in hand. I am well beyond personally benefitting from this exercise other than I love a proper application of the scientific process as an attempt to answer a question.

    All the masks have their reference side completed. I can only get two (properly isolated) cleaning treatments on the test side of the mask.

    Here is what I suggest (based on previous posters):
    More aggressive Toothpaste and Comet
    Soft Scrub and Cerama Bryte
    MicroGloss and nothing
    'Very Fine' sand and TSP

    As always, please provide input/concerns/critiques before I begin.

    Working on a glass-scratch test. Magic Marker followed by a kraft paper scrub (window glass) seems to offer promise.

    -stay tuned...
     
    taimen, Johnoly and SleepySlipper like this.
  3. lowviz

    lowviz Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Northern Delaware or the New Jersey Turnpike
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    Entertainment value only:

    Just bought TEN 1" carbon steel spheres. (Only need one)

    I'd like to tell you that they are dropped from 50" onto the carefully secured lens in a very special way, but then the copyright police would take me away in the middle of the night...
     
    couv and Johnoly like this.
  4. lowviz

    lowviz Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Northern Delaware or the New Jersey Turnpike
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    Trying to wrap this up. Below is one final issue with flaming lenses and a suggestion. Interested posters please read and offer objections if any. If not, the end is near...

    I am seriously impressed with the Z87 impact test. I'm not sure the masks (any masks) would pass it. The whole idea of the impact test is to see if flaming a lens weakens it to any substantial degree. So it seems to make sense to first test to a lower standard. The test masks are marked 'Tempered' and CE. The CE certification for safety glasses (EN.166 Standard) turns out to be about 0.65 the impact energy of the Z87 test. CE took quite a while to research. The Canadians helped immensely with their simplification. (Six Steps to CE Marking) Thank you.

    So I plan to first test one mask at 0.5 times the impact energy of Z87 and then move up to Z87. I only want to know if flaming 'dramatically' weakens the lens, breaking both lenses on the first test tells us nothing.

    Only one mask will be sacrificed.
     
    SleepySlipper and Johnoly like this.
  5. lowviz

    lowviz Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Northern Delaware or the New Jersey Turnpike
    6,339
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    ANSI/ISEA Z87.1-2015 is a beast and I am only testing part 9.6 Drop Ball Test!!

    9.6.1 Purpose
    This test is intended to ensure that all protectors possess a minimum impact resistance.

    9.6.2 Apparatus

    The headform shall be used to hold the complete device. The headform shall be rigidly mounted in the horizontal position, face up, on a base which has a mass of not less than (XXXXXX). The static stiffness of the headform shall be such that when a vertical force of (seems like a lot to me) is applied to the forehead of the headform, the back of the headform shall not deflect by more than (SERIOUSLY???).

    Have the guide tubes and all treatments ready, but the headform requirements are a B***H!!

    Please continue to bear with me, I'm no happier than you are about the delays.
     
    taimen and CDMac like this.
  6. Jiminy

    Jiminy Nassau Grouper

    # of Dives: 25 - 49
    Location: East Coast
    190
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    Do you need volunteers?
     
    lowviz likes this.
  7. stuartv

    stuartv Seeking the Light

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Manassas, VA
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    Not that I'm trying to rush you. I'm not. I think this whole thing is fascinating. Plus I have one of the Mako masks and I am really hoping to learn some way to make it stop fogging.

    But, couldn't you (and wouldn't you want to) go ahead and complete the fogging tests before you deal with the impact tests?

    My apologies if the answer(s) to that question have already been discussed.
     
    lowviz likes this.
  8. lowviz

    lowviz Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Northern Delaware or the New Jersey Turnpike
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    No, but thanks so much for the offer. I just need time to do this as fast as possible while being able to be chased back to first principles or standards.

    When I was a productive member of society I was in 'research support'. I am no stranger to conflict. Discovery teams would hold all sorts of conflicting views, my support team would help out with delivering that which couldn't be purchased in their effort to solve various issues.

    I'm pretty sure I have the 'headform' nailed. PIA.

    (Yes, fogging tests first.)

    You can do this in parallel. Put it in the dishwasher every time you do the dishes. When you are ready to use it, run it through once on its own.

    Let us know.
     
  9. stuartv

    stuartv Seeking the Light

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Manassas, VA
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    I've burned it. I've Dawn'ed it. I've toothpasted it. I've baby shampooed it. I've Fog Kicker'ed it.

    Fog Kicker (as a pre-dive treatment - not a one-time, upfront treatment) is the most effective, so far, but still not 100%.

    I am going to dishwasher it before the next time I get it wet.
     
    laikabear likes this.
  10. lowviz

    lowviz Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Northern Delaware or the New Jersey Turnpike
    6,339
    2,944
    113
    Update. (endless thanks for all your patience!)

    The impact standard requires testing the frame with the lenses. (Answering the question: Does flaming compromise a lens?) A properly fitting mask means that the frame (skirt) is properly sealed. This was no small feat!! I tried a bunch of things and had an 'aha' moment on one of my daily walks. OK, so nobody saw me fitting a dive mask to an endless number of stones in the local stream. I'm sure that I got away with it as I'm not currently in a formfitting white suit with arms that buckle in the back...

    Anyway, huge progress. The head stage (rock) bolts to a 50# plate and allows for 3-point leveling. I can meet (easily exceed) the combined mass standard and the deflection standard for a Z87.1-2015 head stage.

    I have the guide tube but found out that cobbling things together just to get it done makes everything really 'iffy'. Back to the steelyard on Monday to make a tripod for the guide tube and it is a go.

    Rocky.jpg
     

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