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Anti-Fogging Treatments for New Masks. (a comparison of techniques)

Discussion in 'General Scuba Equipment Discussions' started by lowviz, Feb 23, 2019.

  1. johndiver999

    johndiver999 Manta Ray

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    When I have used a cigarette (butane) lighter, I have tried to constantly move the fame around and trying not to pause in any one location for more than a moment. This seems to produce the initial fogging reaction and then the subsequent clearing. I have not tied to hold a lighter in one location and cook the glass. I guess it is good information that the glass can actually take that kind of heat, but if you are finding de-tempering, that's a pretty big negative.
     
    lowviz likes this.
  2. Dan

    Dan Orca

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
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    I bet you that if you put a sticky pad thermocouple (like those shown in the link below) on the other side of the glass lens, monitoring the temperature while you are gently sweeping the flame around as shown by some previous YouTube videos, the glass lens temperature won't be as high as you are thinking.

    Surface Thermocouples with Self-Adhesive Backing
     
    lowviz likes this.
  3. lowviz

    lowviz Solo Diver ScubaBoard Supporter

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    Well, de-tempering is clearly indicated by the polarographic pics (stress checked a day later) but the degree or significance of the change in stress is completely unknown. Cigar lighter treatment is both fast and effective. This is why we proceed carefully while not getting caught up in being obsessive or opinionated. I can't speak to the degradation of the tempering until it is tested. Doing that now, researching and reading up on ball-drop and all that...

    OK, if flaming with a cigar lighter still passes Z87 then it is of no concern to me: (The test for high-impact safety eyewear (ANSI Z87.1-2003))

    Ballistic eyewear - Wikipedia
     
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  4. Johnoly

    Johnoly Solo Diver

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    OH,,,Heck no I wouldn't do that impact test. {hold my beer,,ok,,, fire that BB at my eyeball}

     
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  5. lowviz

    lowviz Solo Diver ScubaBoard Supporter

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    This is not lost on me...

    :wink:
     
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  6. lowviz

    lowviz Solo Diver ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
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    Yesterday and today's progress update:

    A good fogging test is not a trivial issue! Finally some progress, I'm closing in on a dilution (baby shampoo as anti-fog) that can be misted onto the treated lenses, 30 second wait, misted with pure water, 30 second wait, exhale.

    The pic below is not one of the test masks. It is being used to get a reproducible fogging test squared away.

    We press on...

    Fog.jpg
     
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  7. lowviz

    lowviz Solo Diver ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
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    Made precise serial dilutions (Serial dilution - Wikipedia) of J&J baby shampoo. All 'A' class glassware including pipette.

    So I can come within 1:10 of the best antifog dilution to show how efficient the cleaning treatment was.

    Good enough for me, anyone following this in the future (including me) will be approximating it with bucket chemistry. (bucket chemistry - Wiktionary

    Serial Dilutions.jpg
     
  8. Johnoly

    Johnoly Solo Diver

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    Your Testing is fantastic,,,way beyond what I thought would happen. It's exciting to watch the process!!
     
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  9. lowviz

    lowviz Solo Diver ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
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    Finally something to report as an observation/result:

    (See pic below)
    The lowest concentration of baby shampoo that 'sheets' on glass is the 1/100 dilution. Both lenses of all eight masks were sprayed 3x with 1/100 dilution. Left to drain for 15 minutes and then fogged.

    The untreated lenses of the four dishwasher masks all behaved quite nicely. Interesting to note that the reference side (flame and toothpaste) is clearer on the treated areas BUT there is a reproducible fogging at the opposite side of the heat treatments. Did the flame push something over there?

    Heat treatment and toothpaste areas of the non-dishwasher masks are identical to the dishwasher masks BUT the untreated side of the non-dishwasher masks show serious fogging all around the edge. Dishwashing alone appears to be a good treatment. Flaming works, toothpaste works. Maybe spend more effort cleaning the skirt and straps? The aging test should tell that.

    I have more work to do, but it looks like the fogging problem comes from the skirt. However, the film appears to be rather easy to remove.

    Fogged Masks.jpg
     
  10. lowviz

    lowviz Solo Diver ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
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    If it isn't reproducible then it isn't real.

    Left the masks alone and re-fogged 12 hrs later without re-misting with 1/100 baby shampoo. Just exposure to the tea kettle exhaust.

    Very similar results, but note the distinct fog ring around the cigar lighter target. (open dot)

    I may need to be more aggressive with the toothpaste treatment. (The toothpaste target is marked by a black marker ring around a solid dot.)

    I'm still impressed with the dishwasher-only (8x washed but otherwise untreated) side of the dishwasher masks. See pics...


    Re-Fog:
    Re-Fog.jpg
     

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