*Another* Really Stupid Question

[SkimFisher]

This seems a lot like baiting. It's like saying "Why carry a snorkel?", "Why buy split fins?", "Why buy a spare air?", "Why use a pony bottle?". You're an intelligent guy, so...?

I don't currently dive a long hose - but I will very soon. When I did my first two dives for my Cavern cert my buddy and I naturally had "short" rec-style hoses on our octo's. When we did our lights-out-air-share exit it was a PAIN. You're literally sitting on top of whoever is doing the leading and are in constant contention with getting the reg yanked out of your mouth.

Most of the guys I talk to that dive long hoses have said that their first air-share exit drill was the eye-opening experience for them.

A long-hose just makes it easier. Best answer for me.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

This seems a lot like baiting. It's like saying "Why carry a snorkel?", "Why buy split fins?", "Why buy a spare air?", "Why use a pony bottle?". You're an intelligent guy, so...?

Intelligence only gets you so far if you lack context ... if someone has never dived in a restriction or experienced a situation where a long hose was useful, then I can see this as a valid question. I think most SB members would fit that description ... and let's keep in mind that a lot more people read these threads than participate in them.

I don't currently dive a long hose - but I will very soon. When I did my first two dives for my Cavern cert my buddy and I naturally had "short" rec-style hoses on our octo's. When we did our lights-out-air-share exit it was a PAIN. You're literally sitting on top of whoever is doing the leading and are in constant contention with getting the reg yanked out of your mouth.

Most of the guys I talk to that dive long hoses have said that their first air-share exit drill was the eye-opening experience for them.

A long-hose just makes it easier. Best answer for me.

When I was teaching OW I would often have one of my DM's show up in a long-hose configuration and demonstrate to the students how it was used. This was, in part, because where I dive the configuration is popular and I believe it's important to get exposure to it, even if it's not what you and your dive buddy are using (although at one shop I taught for, OW was taught in standard Hog rigs). Not surprisingly, a lot of OW students immediately decided this was a much easier way to share air ... and often ended up choosing a long-hose config for their initial regulator purchase.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[rjack321]

Another situation might be a closed isolator valve where the diver breathes one tank empty and panic's (spg would still show full), but it's quickly fixed.

Unfortunately this is not the case unless you analyzed both posts. If your isolator is closed during a PP fill and you analyzed the right post you don't have a clue what is in the left tank. If you don't know what the gas is you shouldn't breath it. Merely opening the isolator is not solving all your problems. It solves the primary buoyancy issue, giving the "OOG" diver back a power inflator. But you should keep them on your long hose so they are breathing a known gas.

Analyze both posts, check the isolator constantly, do not patronize shops that are too careless or stupid to fill doubles properly.

 

[SkimFisher]

Intelligence only gets you so far if you lack context ... if someone has never dived in a restriction or experienced a situation where a long hose was useful, then I can see this as a valid question. I think most SB members would fit that description ... and let's keep in mind that a lot more people read these threads than participate in them.

Fair enough. No offense meant, Reg.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

You could also ask yourself the question Why wouldn't you?

Everything we carry has a cost. The long hose seems pretty low-impact, but there does seem to be some interaction with other choices, for example one discipline of diving holds that all bottles should be carried on the left to keep the long hose free.

Today, I'm asking about the pros. I'm not making any decisions here, just curious. I am a single tank OW kind of diver, so for me the long hose is all about handling a catastrophic gas loss. I'm sold on it. But still, one wonders what else motivates certain choices, and asking the question is one way to find out if there are some subtleties involved.

FWIW, I find that threads like this really underscore the value of mentorship and training. As a n00b, when I see that even simple questions sometimes have complex or nuänced answers I am motivated to get thorough instruction as I progress in diving.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

This seems a lot like baiting. It's like saying "Why carry a snorkel?", "Why buy split fins?", "Why buy a spare air?", "Why use a pony bottle?". You're an intelligent guy, so...?

I don't currently dive a long hose - but I will very soon. When I did my first two dives for my Cavern cert my buddy and I naturally had "short" rec-style hoses on our octo's. When we did our lights-out-air-share exit it was a PAIN. You're literally sitting on top of whoever is doing the leading and are in constant contention with getting the reg yanked out of your mouth.

Most of the guys I talk to that dive long hoses have said that their first air-share exit drill was the eye-opening experience for them.

A long-hose just makes it easier. Best answer for me.

Sorry, my question was not clear. I wasn't asking why use a long hose for air sharing, I use one and love it for many, many reasons. I was actually asking why one plans for sharing air at all when each member of a team carries redundant air for themselves.

When diving singles in open water, I carry your redundant gas in my cylinder and you carry mine. Obviously we plan to share. But with doubles, we each carry our own redundant gas, so I was wondering what motivates divers to plan for air sharing.

The answers were enlightening.

 

[TSandM]

I don't think it's a stupid question. In classes, the instructors are always talking about, "If you lost all your gas at the point of maximum penetration blah blah blah". It's not going to happen, unless something extremely unlikely occurs AND you screw up the response. Even a couple of my teachers have admitted, "This won't happen." So, if you believe the planning is based on that scenario, and that scenario isn't going to happen, you begin to question the steps you've apparently taken to deal with it. But, in fact, OTHER things are much more likely, that would benefit from the same steps.

 

[rjack321]

When diving singles in open water, I carry your redundant gas in my cylinder and you carry mine. Obviously we plan to share. But with doubles, we each carry our own redundant gas, so I was wondering what motivates divers to plan for air sharing.

All the same reasons apply to doubles as singles. There's are no other options in overhead diving (cave or deco) except to solve the problem underwater. Practically no matter what the problem is can be solved if you bring enough gas. The reserves are not "redundant gas" solely for the purpose of fixing "oops OOG" that a marginally trained OW diver might pull on you. So you need to be prepared to share temporarily or continuously until you've exited.

 

[Meng_Tze]

I'm ok with agreeing that it's a stupid question, I was not joking when I said it was stupid. That being said, I don't have any particular difficulty asking stupid questions, as long as they are not inappropriate. For example, asking certain types of questions in the DIR forum is trolling and inappropriate. So keep calm, carry on!

And thanks for the answers so far, namely:

• Although the posibility of a catastrophic ghas los is remote, the consequences are severe enough that carrying a long hose and enough gas to get a team mate out is worthwhile;
• Various issues can arise where having a temporary gas donation is useful, and;
• A partial donation may be needed if circumstances are such that there is a delayed exit and a team mate doesn't have enough gas to make it all the way home.

These are all standard reasons to have two regulators.... the reason for a LONG hose is as AJ mentioned: allowing enough space between users.