Another fatal record attempt in Lake Garda, Italy

[Trace Malinowski]

I was the training director at PSAI. Hal Watts capitalized on his 400-foot deep air record to have a diving career. He formed an agency that published my freediving manual in which I advocated for breath-hold times for freediving to be reduced to no longer than 1 minute for safety.

Divers like the Polish diver who died might help us have a better understanding of decompression profiles. As a diver who was bent and who has permanent injuries (eye patch in my avatar), I'm interested in what anecdotal and scientific evidence for gradient factors and such that may be unlocked through the experience of others.

 

[ginti]

I disagree. Let's say he succeeded. You really think not one of the gear manufacturers would contact him to ask what worked, what didn't and what could be improved?
While I agree on taking this apart to see what went wrong, so we can learn from it, he found it worthy of his effort. End of story.

Yes. And, as I said before, only a very tiny circle of people would gain something from it (how many people really gain something from a piece of equipment produced to go very, very deep without any specific purpose?)

By the way, I have never said that I am against going deep. I am against going deep just to go deep.

If you go deep for exploration (as, for instance, they do in caves) - that is another thing that would bring this small advantage you mentioned, together with many others. There are other considerations, but going deep for explorations is totally different than going to a lake just to prove that "I can do it better than previously done".

End of the story

 

[ginti]

I was the training director at PSAI. Hal Watts capitalized on his 400-foot deep air record to have a diving career. He formed an agency that published my freediving manual in which I advocated for breath-hold times for freediving to be reduced to no longer than 1 minute for safety.

And, again, Hal Watts capitalized on most of the success: only one person.

About your manual, if it was/is so good (and I bet it was/is), I bet you would have found an alternative if PASI was not available.

Divers like the Polish diver who died might help us have a better understanding of decompression profiles. As a diver who was bent and who has permanent injuries (eye patch in my avatar), I'm interested in what anecdotal and scientific evidence for gradient factors and such that may be unlocked through the experience of others.

We can reach these goals differently and more efficiently; through research, for instance.

This entire discussion is about balancing the advantages and disadvantages of these types of actions. Any action in the world has advantages and disadvantages, but not all people weigh them the same way. It is clear that I give different importance than you guys. I believe we should agree to disagree at this point

 

[Centrals]

To be fair, for me, both should be erased. I really do not understand the purpose of "world records" - I see them as a stupid macho-testosterone thing. I can find plenty of better ways to challenge our limits, for instance, through scientific research, geographic exploration, etc. Yes, sometimes people involved in these activities will end up breaking world records, but it is not (or it should not be) their primary purpose.

But maybe it is just me.

"Fame".
I remember reading from some where that people will cheat to win regardless of the eventual outcome eg. Olympian.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

And, again, Hal Watts capitalized on most of the success: only one person.

About your manual, if it was/is so good (and I bet it was/is), I bet you would have found an alternative if PASI was not available.


We can reach these goals differently and more efficiently; through research, for instance.

This entire discussion is about balancing the advantages and disadvantages of these types of actions. Any action in the world has advantages and disadvantages, but not all people weigh them the same way. It is clear that I give different importance than you guys. I believe we should agree to disagree at this point

Most things are started by just one person. Some altruistic. Some not.

If JFK never said we were going to go to the moon, NASA might still never have put a human footprint on lunar soil. In reality, JFK just came up with a stunt but NASA took on the challenge, managed to find a million reasons to justify it, and many good things came out of the engineering to reach that goal.

I never got scurvy thanks to Tang.

Almost any sport dive is done for no good reason whatsoever and you can die.

 

[Wibble]

I disagree. Let's say he succeeded. You really think not one of the gear manufacturers would contact him to ask what worked, what didn't and what could be improved?
While I agree on taking this apart to see what went wrong, so we can learn from it, he found it worthy of his effort. End of story.

The thing about extreme deep diving is it's so far beyond the capabilities of even the keenest of technical divers that virtually all "lessons" coming from these extreme dives aren't relevant to the diving community as a whole.

For example would Shearwater create a special verson of a dive computer to go beyond 200m when there's literally a handful of people who'd need that? Sure, some people may buy the "special" one, like an Ammonite Special battery, but it's far from mainstream. Same with lights.


Genuine question: which dive computers are specified for a 350m/1150ft dive?

 

[ginti]

Most things are started by just one person. Some altruistic. Some not.

If JFK never said we were going to go to the moon, NASA might still never have put a human footprint on lunar soil. In reality, JFK just came up with a stunt but NASA took on the challenge, managed to find a million reasons to justify it, and many good things came out of the engineering to reach that goal.

I never got scurvy thanks to Tang.

I don't see much connection with what we are discussing here... could you explain how you link the two? Also, remember that NASA is "research", so it is quite satisfactory for me

Almost any sport dive is done for no good reason whatsoever and you can die.

Why? Does life have any reason?

Without being philosophical, as I mentioned before, the problem for me is to weigh the advantages and disadvantages. In extreme deep diving, when there are no other purposes, the disadvantages involve collectivity and are way more significant than the advantage of a single person. This is NOT true for recreational diving. I will not repeat it (I don't want to be rude, but it is pointless to insist on something we see differently).

EDIT: to show the different cost for collectivity, here you are some data from Wikipedia: Deep diving - Wikipedia
Thirty-five people ever dived below 240m; 4 died, a mortality rate higher than 10%! Three had serious incidents (it is not specified what "serious" means), meaning that 20% of the extreme deep divers had significant incidents! If you look at Wikipedia data, actually, 34 dives have been verified below 240m, plus another one by Pascal Bernabe unverified, meaning that the mortality rate is not calculated among divers but dives! How does it compare with "standard" scuba divers?
Remember that anytime such an accident happens, there is a massive expenditure of money on rescue services and, eventually, healthcare. Plus, the emotional damage to the beloved ones. For me, these numbers weigh way more than the personal accomplishment of some random divers.

 

[Vicko]

Nobody is learning anyting from the Garda dives, there are no new and exciting wet rocks discovered, there are no water measurements done, the gear is not shared, the procedures are idiotic.
4 out of 5 people attempting this record have died.
To be fair we could learn a lot about in water recompression and the effect of vodka on partial paralysis.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

JFK basically said, "Hold my beer. We're going to the moon." NASA managed to justify the stunt of landing on the moon.

Extreme deep diving for the heck of it was just as much of a stunt as going to the moon and just as recreational as doing anything stupid underwater while sport diving. It's just more difficult to justify it without NASA's marketing department. This next moon trip is being done just for the heck of it and being sold as a necessity to put a person of color on the lunar surface for one. It's a stunt. It just takes a bigger group to pull it off than a few guys. Most record attempts have a support team.

 

[BlueTrin]

Nobody is learning anyting from the Garda dives, there are no new and exciting wet rocks discovered, there are no water measurements done, the gear is not shared, the procedures are idiotic.
4 out of 5 people attempting this record have died.
To be fair we could learn a lot about in water recompression and the effect of vodka on partial paralysis.

Wow 80% death rate, this is quite high …

I guess they could sign a voucher to give their remains for research, maybe could see the damage and toll on their body?