Another Eagles Nest fatality

[CuzzA]

Look, you guys have far more experience with cave diving and the standards than me. Nevertheless, ALL of this is speculation. Like I said, I was going to keep my mouth shut, but trying to blamestorm the shop who wasn't even party to the incident provoked me to correct the record.

And you may be right that some of you would want to see my skills, size me up, see what my intentions are for wanting to use a rebreather... and I imagine the same thing probably happened here.

@CuzzA

Its been ststed a few times that shop doesn't teach Intro, if he failed the class it wasn't with them. As to the culture, cavern and OW divers have no business diving into Eagles Nest. There is too much that can go wrong there for anyone other than experienced Full cave divers to go there. It is not a dive for beginners and anyone taking beginners there shows a complete lack of safety and a poor attitude toward being thinking diver. (FTR, yes I've dove there, I'm not just regurgitating online rhetoric)

Well then it goes to show, people don't know what the hell they are talking about. But let's just say that is the case. Then how does this shop have anything to do with this incident and why was it even brought up?

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I'm not sure I understand the situation. 4 divers went in, one bailed real early in the dive (and ascended alone).

One diver stayed shallow and alone around 100 feet (the deceased) -
and the other two divers went down a while to 200 ft -
and then found him in trouble when they got back to around 100 feet?
Is that the general idea?

 

[bumcikaz]

I'm not sure I understand the situation. 4 divers went in, one bailed real early in the dive (and ascended alone).

One diver stayed shallow and alone around 100 feet (the deceased) -
and the other two divers went down a while to 200 ft -
and then found him in trouble when they got back to around 100 feet?
Is that the general idea?

From what I understand 1 bailed out at the beginning, other 3 went down to 200' and guy got in trouble on the way up at around 100'

 

[dumpsterDiver]

OK thanks.. At least it sounds like they were diving together then.

 

[Jack Hammer]

Well then it goes to show, people don't know what the hell they are talking about. But let's just say that is the case. Then how does this shop have anything to do with this incident

James, if the shop in question is telling unqualified people it's OK to dive there then they have a lot to do with it. If, as others have claimed, it's true they are teaching cavern there then they are a big part of the problem.

I'm a big supporter of people choosing to kack themselves by getting in over their heads as long as it doesn't affect others access. Incidents like this, even if it was a medical event, threaten access to sites for those who follow the rules and take the time to get proper training and gain experience. Instructors and dive shops who take unqualified divers places they shouldn't be cause damage to the caves, the sites, and the community.

 

[tbone1004]

@CuzzA who was that post directed at? what I said confirms what you bolded. You missed the bolt/underline/colored AND between the cave certification and the trimix

Full cave
AND

currently trimix trained *i.e. if doing a survey, DPV, etc etc.
OR
in a trimix class *i.e. you are already fully cave certified and are doing your trimix course*

Deep caves in the US that are free for training are pretty uncommon, so it's a good training site for that, but what it does not allow is a cave instructor to teach a full trimix student cave courses. I.e. the poor bugger who died could not take his intro to cave course in the Nest despite being full trimix certified already.

This only applies to NSS-CDS instructors btw, they have no ability to regulate any other agency.

Regarding the shop, the point there was that if the shop is known to violate accepted training agreements of not training in the Nest, then that may have been the shop that this guy sought out because other shops might have turned him down for going too fast, or he chose them because they were going to let him fast track, whatever. It's an argument towards frame of mind about the rules not applying to them/him.

@dumpsterDiver from what has been said.
4 divers went in.
1 called the dive early.
3 completed the dive plan
on the way towards the deco bottles, the deceased had the issues described and the other 2 stayed with him until the 40 ft stop where they were unable to control his buoyancy and released him to the surface

 

[KevinNM]

You can't teach any classes in Eagles Nest under the NSS-CDS unless you are already full cave certified. Period. If you teach any class other than full trimix, the diver also has to be full trimix certified.

I thought you couldn't even go into the solution tube for any reason unless full cave certified and you had to be a cave instructor to teach anything?

 

[tbone1004]

I thought you couldn't even go into the solution tube for any reason unless full cave certified and you had to be a cave instructor to teach anything?

who's going to stop you?

It is up to the individual agencies. NSS-CDS has issued that statement, I don't know if the others have, but I'm not aware of them. There are lots of unwritten rules like no training in PIII that most respectable instructors will follow, but unless the agencies specify it from their instructors, no one is controlling it. NSS-CDS does not have trimix instruction, so any mix courses would have to be conducted by another agency

 

[CuzzA]

This only applies to NSS-CDS instructors btw, they have no ability to regulate any other agency.

@tbone1004 thanks for the clarification on the NSS-CDS. Now I have a better understand on everything. NSS-CDS is a cave training agency among other things and is not directly related to this incident.

I edited my post which referenced NSS-CDS, as it is unrelated to the shop and this incident, other than NSS-CDS does have rules for their instructors regarding the site.

 

[tbone1004]

@tbone1004 thanks for the clarification on the NSS-CDS. Now I have a better understand on everything. NSS-CDS is a cave training agency among other things and is not directly related to this incident.

I edited my post which referenced NSS-CDS, as it is unrelated to the shop and this incident, other than NSS-CDS does have rules for their instructors regarding the site.

correct. now this is different than a site like Cow Springs or a number of other sites the CDS owns where you have to have a full cave cert to enter the cave period. They own the cave, you have to be a member to get the key, and you have to play by their rules to get in. Also in contrast to caves like Blue Grotto that are privately owned and they get to control who goes in and who doesn't, etc etc. This is a public site, so it would be near impossible to impose these restrictions without spending an insane amount of money to keep someone there 24/7 to keep tabs on everyone