Annapolis to the US?

[FishLovingStudent]

Yes, but why should the onus be on the HBPS to find another site?, it wasn't them who proposed that one.
BTW, by "questionable pollutants" I'm assuming you mean the hundreds of pounds of PCB laden insulation, that ended up costing the taxpayer $$ to remove? That the ARSBC was going to happly sink there if not prevented by others? It's for that reason alone I question every "fact" they claim.

lol. Volunteer workers did all the work. That nixes your taxpayers argument. All of the ARSBC wrecks that have been sunk are just as clean, why would they not hold the Annapolis to the same standard?

The only posts you have ever made are against the Annapolis and rarely if ever include data or sources. Its for that reason alone I question every "fact" you claim.

Can't wait to dive her later this month

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'd say the Annapolis was cleaner than some of the others ... primarily because they were held under such a microscope due to the legal battle. I was on board during one of the inspections, and they were pretty thorough ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added April 7th, 2015 at 11:57 AM ----------

The only posts you have ever made are against the Annapolis and rarely if ever include data or sources. Its for that reason alone I question every "fact" you claim.

I too question his "facts" ... the claim that the ARSBC was going to "happily sink (the ship with insulation) if not prevented by others" is an outright fabrication ... we took the insulation off that ship more than five years ago, long before there were any legal issues. In fact, they hadn't even yet decided where they were going to put her when we removed the insulation from the ship.

Here's a picture of Cheng and I removing insulation ... taken in September '09 ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[mayday1234]

Well, I've been following this issue for a while now and the ARSBC's own website has had several summaries over the years (I haven't had time to go through their website to find the actual links)
So, as far as I was aware the general timeline went something along the lines - ARSBC thought they had all the approvals and sinking was any day now - EC were notified there might be PCBs in the insulation; insulation was tested and PCBs were found - sink on hold while all parties determined a solution - solution was to remove it - Gov't stepped in and issued a RFP for contractors to do the work - contract issued, volunteers asked to stay away while contractors performed the work. Work completed.
Here is a newspaper story that does a better job of summarizing it; PCBs found on ship destined for artificial reef , as well as another direct quote from Rick Wall "Now that the Federal Government has been engaged to assist in the remediation of the ship, we have turned a critical corner in the history of the Annapolis project," wrote Rick Wall, the project's director.

But, I am not connected to any of these parties, so if I am in fact incorrect, my apologies, but I doubt it.

---------- Post added April 7th, 2015 at 02:32 PM ----------

Or, here's the actual RFP from the Gov't procurement site https://buyandsell.gc.ca/procurement-data/tender-notice/PW-14-00617147

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I can't say anything about the facts of the article ... newspapers often get it wrong, and I cannot find anything anywhere other than that one article you linked that even talks about it. But I can definitely speak to what went on while I was on board. I was involved in helping to get the insulation off that ship, and it came off way before Feb. 2014. They may have found some we missed ... it's a big ship after all. But it was one of the first things we did, and volunteers did the work of getting it out of the deck ceilings. If there was any insulation left on board by 2014, it couldn't have been much. The article also says nothing about the taxpayers footing the bill ... not sure where you got that information.

I will tell you that time and time again, the courts shot down every argument the Halkett Bay folks brought up ... which is, of course, why that ship is now sitting on the bottom of the bay. I'm not relying on hearsay, or articles, or charges made by interested parties for my information ... I'm relying on what I saw and experienced while I was on that ship, and while I was diving the site where she now sits. I'll trust my own eyes before I take the word of someone with an agenda.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[cooldives]

I too spent several days cleaning the ship and know it is very clean and will be an amazing wreck dive site. While cleaning, I recall there was a lot of fibreglass coated insulation left on the walls, as it was believed by all involved that it was fine and could be left on. I believe someone in the US had found that similar insulation on another vessel did contain some contaminants and so the insulation on the Annapolis was checked and it was determined it may have small amounts of toxic substances. However, since the vessel was sold to the ARSBC as being free of any PCB's, it went back to the seller (DND/Government) to rectify their oversight. So assuming my recollection here is correct, then taxpayers would have covered that cost.

Kudos to the efforts of all the volunteers, and especially to Howie, Wes Roots, and all the others who endured criticism, an amazing amount of stress, endless volunteer hours, and who knows what else. This will be an amazing home for marine life, location for scientific study, and of course a great dive site close to Vancouver.

 

[deepdiverbc]

When the topic of insulation concerns first came up it got me reading a few articles. My understanding is that insulation containing asbestos is considered "friable" if it is easily crumbled which would release non soluable asbestos. Spray on insulation is friable. It was my understanding that the HBPS brought this concern forward and I started to hear them. But when the asbestos was removed that wasnt good enough for them so they switched to depleted antifouling that any quick internet search will tell you is not a danger to marine life. It was then I felt the HBPS showed their true colors. If they had stopped after the insulation was removed I would not be criticising them.

---------- Post added April 7th, 2015 at 10:32 PM ----------

So if anyone dives a different ship with spray on insulation they hopefuly will now know not to bump into the walls and disturb it. Maybe that's one good thing that has come out of all this.

 

[mayday1234]

So, now that someone else has confirmed the fact there was PCB laden insulation "forgotten" (apparently not by the ARSBC, but the Navy), just for arguments sake, makes you wonder if there is not any ticking time bombs out there?
When I was watching the webcast of the sinking, one of the ARSBC directors was narrating and mentioned one of the Annapolis sisters ships (British?) was also recently put down as a reef - was that insulation removed?
Which is why from my perspective, the possible benefits of an "artificial" reef in my backyard (BC coast) just doesn't justify the potential risks. And while the risks are admittedly small given all the time/effort that does go into the clean-up, they are still there. One small compartment that had a hairline crack to the bilges over the years, an alteration that covered up a section of wiring, all could leave a little "surprise".
I'm sure areas with an obvious need for structures (San Diego, Bahamas etc) might be worth that risk, but areas with such a marginal need at best (BC) not so much. And if there is no environmental need, and it just comes down to a few divers bored with their natural diving, even less of a reason to take the risk.

 

[decompression]

I appreciate the concern for our environment but I'm wondering if it would be time/effort better spent to take measures against known contamination (Mercury from industry) than speculation on several square feet of insulation. Also, isn't the pcb insulation part of the wiring harnesses and not wall insulation which most likely was sprayed asbestos and only a danger when airborne?


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[DaleC]

Boring... You would better spend your time protesting the continued existence of the two hulks tied up at Britannia Beach waiting to sink with no remediation at all, like the Ready, like the Cape Swain, like the mystery wreck, like the four boats under the community dock. Then multiply that by thousands to account for the entire west coast full of abandoned wrecks waiting to sink.

All the drama over the Annapolis comes across as a typical first world problem. Concern about nothing of real relevance, just the inconvenience of self centered personal enjoyment. A few people who live on an island who don't want to share their bay with divers. Sorta like a few people at Lions Bay.

You seem to be worried about some vague imaginary concern that we all know won't materialize when the real issue: that of affluent people who possess waterfront property being able to control access by common citizens, completely evades you.

That's all this boiled down to.

 

[FishLovingStudent]

I'm sure areas with an obvious need for structures (San Diego, Bahamas etc) might be worth that risk, but areas with such a marginal need at best (BC) not so much. And if there is no environmental need, and it just comes down to a few divers bored with their natural diving, even less of a reason to take the risk.

There is an environmental need. Halkett Bay is littered with the wood remains of the logging industry that was once there, creating an acidic floor that most life could not live upon. The entire bay floor is inhabitable for much of the normal B.C. underwater crew.

If a natural wreck with no preparation and cleaning can rejuvenate the marine life biodiversity around it (The Ready and Cape Swain at Britannia) I am sure this larger cleaned vessel can do no harm. Not to mention the sheer amount of ship wrecks of natural causes that far outnumber artificial wrecks that should be much more of a worry for you (if you really cared for the environment).

The Annapolis is the only large wreck available from the mainland, it's economical and environmental value are invaluable. You are sounding like an alarmist grabbing at straws at this point.