An Open Letter of Personal Perspective to the Diving Industry by NetDoc

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I find it amusing and sad that people feel the need to "choose" one side over the other. Life isn't so black and white, nor is this case.

There is a lot of grey here. So much that perhaps some black and white useful results will come out of it after the trial? An impartial(?) jury with no skin in the diving game needs to look at what happened here and inject some common sense into the incestuous little families that spring up in closed communities.

It's not just here that it happens. Look at the little girl that accidentally shot a firearms instructor with a full - auto machine gun. Think that hasn't drawn some lines and brought out the radicals on both sides? The death of anyone, but more especially a child, seems to polarize folks like nothing else.

Had the adult been the one that died from an embolism due to the ascent and the instructor saved the two kids he would still have allegedly run a lousy program, in totally unsuitable conditions for the program given it's intended scope, used bad judgment, been aided in running that lousy program by BSA rules, and someone would still be dead. But it would not have been a child whose parents lied, using a clearance from a medical "professional" who had no idea what the hell he was signing off on, and with a kid who had no business in the water to begin with on SCUBA. Given his history I would have rejected him from my snorkeling classes.

Yet there are some things that given all of the above might have prevented this event, and the situation leading to it from happening at all. Hopefully a jury will see that and, as a result, meaningful changes made. I imagine some will see those changes as an assault on their freedoms, bottom lines, and egos. None of those are a real concern from my vantage point when weighed against the value of a human life.

Even though I consider myself and others to be no more than animated temporary meat sacks housing some form of intelligence(?) with a built in expiration date. One that should not be sped up by the negligence, stupidity, disregard for safe practices, and profit seeking motives of others.
 
Did your spell checker really turn 'machinations' to 'mechanizations'?
I've been auto-cowrecked! (I had to over ride it to post that, too!)
 
He even states "My reason for writing this open letter to the industry is to shed some light on why PADI engaged in such bizarre behavior in the Utah case." That his accusations were based on flawed logic and outright deceptions are beside the point.

It also implies that he had/has some sort of insider information about PADI's internal meetings/discussions/thought processes and is going to share those secrets with us. I could be wrong, but I don't think that was the case.

Frankly, I'd have no problem with a letter that just came right out and said "In my opinion - personal and professional - PADI sucks. And, with DEMA right around the corner, I'd like to raise some points regarding the circumstances of the tragic death of David Tuvell that I feel underscore the reasoning and rationale on which I have based this opinion."

---------- Post added January 4th, 2015 at 12:39 PM ----------

I've been auto-cowrecked! (I had to over ride it to post that, too!)

My kids call it "auto-corrupt"

---------- Post added January 4th, 2015 at 12:46 PM ----------

There is a lot of grey here. So much that perhaps some black and white useful results will come out of it after the trial? An impartial(?) jury with no skin in the diving game needs to look at what happened here and inject some common sense into the incestuous little families that spring up in closed communities.

It's not just here that it happens. Look at the little girl that accidentally shot a firearms instructor with a full - auto machine gun. Think that hasn't drawn some lines and brought out the radicals on both sides? The death of anyone, but more especially a child, seems to polarize folks like nothing else.

Had the adult been the one that died from an embolism due to the ascent and the instructor saved the two kids he would still have allegedly run a lousy program, in totally unsuitable conditions for the program given it's intended scope, used bad judgment, been aided in running that lousy program by BSA rules, and someone would still be dead. But it would not have been a child whose parents lied, using a clearance from a medical "professional" who had no idea what the hell he was signing off on, and with a kid who had no business in the water to begin with on SCUBA. Given his history I would have rejected him from my snorkeling classes.

Yet there are some things that given all of the above might have prevented this event, and the situation leading to it from happening at all. Hopefully a jury will see that and, as a result, meaningful changes made. I imagine some will see those changes as an assault on their freedoms, bottom lines, and egos. None of those are a real concern from my vantage point when weighed against the value of a human life.

Even though I consider myself and others to be no more than animated temporary meat sacks housing some form of intelligence(?) with a built in expiration date. One that should not be sped up by the negligence, stupidity, disregard for safe practices, and profit seeking motives of others.

Damn. You can go months posting a wide range of things that drive me nuts. And then every once in a while you post something that I can't help but agree with. I guess this means there's still hope... for one of us!

:D
 
I find it amusing and sad that people feel the need to "choose" one side over the other. Life isn't so black and white, nor is this case.

Are people really doing that? I see lots of people posting about individual issues and stating their opinions one way or the other but if they didn't have an opinion, why would they post anything? It would be a little boring if every post was "thank you for the information; I'll think about it". Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean by "choosing sides" but I believe most people in this thread who agree with each other on many of the issues disagree on other issues.

As an example, I disagree with NetDoc and agree with rdbradish in that I believe Carney knew exactly what he was doing when he wrote that letter and he knew it was full of BS. I just think he was slimey for doing it and I bet rdbradish thinks Carney was clever. I'm okay with that as Carney may be both slimey and clever. For selfish reasons, I agree with Willis and some forum members that the ratio for DSD's should be reduced to 2:1. That's all I have been able to safely handle and still follow standards. I can barely think of the perfect conditions to handle three. With the reduced ratio, I might get more participants for myself and some of the clueless instructors out there (and in here) MIGHT not kill / injure as many people. That said, I disagree that the standards really should be changed because I am not that selfish. I'd rather instructors either follow standards or get out of the business. Safety would still be a problem because if the instructors are ignoring standards now, why would they suddenly follow the stricter standards? Amazingly, I even agree with awap on one issue too, ie., there should be more done to weed out bad instructors from all agencies before there is a fatal accident. I do, however, understand some of the limitations of that so I don't agree with him on his, errr, ummmm, "suggested improvements" in supervision.

In summary, I see black on many issues and white on many others. When I squint, it all looks gray. I bet most others are in the same boat.
 
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Yes, people really are picking a side and beating down the "other side". You reading the same thread I am?

By choosing sides I mean, team PADI and Team Carney.(ITI)

Are people really doing that? I see lots of people posting about individual issues and stating their opinions one way or the other but if they didn't have an opinion, why would they post anything? It would be a little boring if every post was "thank you for the information; I'll think about it". Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean by "choosing sides" but I believe most people in this thread who agree with each other on many of the issues disagree on other issues.

As an example, I disagree with NetDoc and agree with rdbradish in that I believe Carney knew exactly what he was doing when he wrote that letter and he knew it was full of BS. I just think he was slimey for doing it and I bet rdbradish thinks Carney was clever. I'm okay with that as Carney may be both slimey and clever. For selfish reasons, I agree with Willis and some forum members that the ratio for DSD's should be reduced to 2:1. That's all I have been able to safely handle and still follow standards. I can barely think of the perfect conditions to handle three. With the reduced ratio, I might get more participants for myself and some of the clueless instructors out there (and in here) MIGHT not kill / injure as many people. That said, I disagree that the standards really should be changed because I am not that selfish. I'd rather instructors either follow standards or get out of the business. Safety would still be a problem because if the instructors are ignoring standards now, why would they suddenly follow the stricter standards? Amazingly, I even agree with awap on one issue too, ie., there should be more done to weed out bad instructors from all agencies before there is a fatal accident. I do, however, understand some of the limitations of that so I don't agree with him on his, errr, ummmm, "suggested improvements" in supervision.

In summary, I see black on many issues and white on many others. When I squint, it all looks gray. I bet most others are in the same boat.
 
Last edited by Zippsy; Today at 01:42 PM. Reason: fixed some typos so as to not offend anyone less then profound :D

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---------- Post added January 4th, 2015 at 02:08 PM ----------

Yes, people really are picking a side and beating down the "other side". You reading the same thread I am?

By choosing sides I mean, team PADI and Team Carney.(ITI)

I think many people are actually looking at the facts, evaluating what information is known about this specific incident, interpreting both as they may, forming their own opinion, and composing posts that convey whatever conclusion(s) they have come to.

Of course, if the result of that intellectual process by Person A results in them holding an opinion contrary to that of Person B, Person B will accuse Person A of simply "picking a side" and/or "beating down the other side."

On the other hand there are many people who's posts are "My agency, right or wrong... your agency sucks"

Frankly, it's not hard to distinguish between the two.
 
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I think many people are actually looking at the facts, evaluating what information is known about this specific incident, interpreting both as they may, forming their own opinion, and composing posts that convey whatever conclusion(s) they have come to.

Of course, if the result of that intellectual process by Person A results in them holding an opinion contrary to that of Person B, Person B will accuse Person A of simply "picking a side" and/or "beating down the other side."

On the other hand there are many people who's posts are either "My agency, right or wrong... your agency sucks"

Frankly, it's not hard to distinguish between the two.

Fair enough, I still find it sad that SOME (vocal) people feel the need to pick a side, and right or wrong they will fight to justify and/or defend their side. There are many nuances to this situation, and plenty of blame to spread around.
 


On the other hand there are many people who's posts are either "My agency, right or wrong... your agency sucks"
You mean like THIS ? :D
 
Hello All,

I have read several threads regarding this issue since I received Brian Carney's open letter. I have now read Al Hornsby's rebuttal letter.

PADI may be implementing a perfect legal plan with an exceptional legal strategy, but they have lost the marketing war.

Caveat Emptor: IANAI for any SCUBA agency! I am a lay person when it comes to professional level diving.

However, I have 35 years of big business, maritime business (dangerous and very deadly cargoes), project management, quality control, and safety experience. I have been hauled into court several times over the course of my working life--I am no stranger to the legal game. Remember, the legal system is not about justice. The legal system is to allow harmed people their day in court to attempt to gain some retribution for actions by others that proved harmful. Our legal system is in place to avoid the Hatfield and McCoy scenario. The legal system is a multi-level Chess game and fairness is not one of its virtues.

Did Brian Carney get some facts wrong? Probably.

Has PADI promoted the sport of diving by its actions in this case? No, not at all.

Does PADI have a training and re-training, and audting protocol in place that is effective for its member instructors? I don't thinks so.

Has PADI acknowledged that it has a top-to-bottom and bottom-to-top retraining problem. I don't think so.

I am working for a very large corporation. We have training and retraining regimens in place. We perform Plan-Do-Check-Act cycles on these programs. We have employee level stand-downs, we have location level stand-downs, and we have corporate level stand-downs. We train, re-train, and iterate again and again.

Recently, our powered equipment training was revamped. All employees who have current licenses to operate powered equipment were given a cut-off date for retraining; if an employee does not complete the re-training on the new policies, their license is revoked. The training and retraining is expensive; however, nationwide we have not killed anyone to date, and this company has been in existence for decades. One of our Midwest competitors killed someone several months ago. Our biggest competitor has killed people previously.

Quality control and safety starts at the top of any organization. Safety is an iterative process. Retraining must be multi-faceted and delivered in different formats. Safety audits must be performed before an accident occurs. I would be ashamed to detail the gross safety violations that Al Hornsby wrote regarding his agents, namely the dive shop and instructor. Really?

PADI, after investigating this incident probably should have organized the plaintiffs and created a stipulation to close the case before it damaged the industry.

Then PADI should have instituted a safety stand-down for all DSD operations. Once the safety standards were reviewed, audits performed by IDCs, and instructors, they should have retrained everybody involved with DSD.

I am a SCUBA diver because of DSD. My DSD instructor was very thorough and safety conscience. However, he did take some subjective decisions about our situation that worked out very well.

This is just my opinion as an interested non-professional member of this community. Furthermore, I don't know all the facts and I hope I am not misrepresenting PADIs actions or SDI/TDI/ERDC, or Willis' actions.

My conclusion stands: PADI has damaged the industry by their actions in this case.

markm
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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