An Open Letter of Personal Perspective to the Diving Industry by NetDoc

[Omisson]

I agree that the timing and message as interpreted by the masses serves the industry poorly. I have spoken to Brian at length, and I think what he was trying to say is important. I have spoken to Peter Meyer at length, and his message was important too. Sadly, the important message was swept away by many including me trying to defend or castigate the letters.


Which part, Pete?

the message isn't that the instructor was wrong, I think we can all agree that the instructor acted in no ones best interests. The message isn't that PADI was right, they got rid of an instructor who shouldn't be instructing. It isn't even about PADI doing something slimy in court, with respect to Omission, we pay lawyers to win, and we really don't care how unless they get caught.

to me, it's about the ethics, and morals if you will about scuba. It's about me looking in the mirror at the end of the day and knowing that I gave my customers their money's worth. It's about you looking at yourself in the mirror and saying that you taught your OW student to the best of your ability, and that you gave them the tools to keep them safe. It's about Brian looking at himself in the mirror and saying "I wrote a letter, and it reflected my convictions", and it's about Drew and Al and whatever they say when they look in the mirror. Are Drew and Al doing the ethically correct thing, or are they making maximum profit for their shareholders? Only they look in that mirror. Maybe they are doing both.

Pete, in the end, all we have are our reputation. It doesn't make a difference how much money we made, it doesn't matter how many students we taught, or how many wrecks we dived. The only thing that matters is how we treated others, were we fair, did we treat them as we expected to be treated, or did we extract the maximum resources from them, and leave them wondering why they had an empty experience.

you already know what is right, and I find you a morally straight character in this whole debacle. I find most participants in this thread have the strength of their convictions. There are those not participating, however, that I question.

You know it's damn frustrating when you try and pull a sleight of hand like this.

Can I ask- what was the "message" in the letter? What was the important point being brought out to be discussed in the industry?

I've read it a dozen times.

Your post intimates somehow "we" just didn't get it.

Seems to me the author never actually SAID anything that would give us a hint as to what it was that was/is worth discussing....

Since the letter went out scattershot- still seems to me it's the fault of the author -not the targets hit by the buckshot...

I could go line for line through the letter and really make my point but I'll spare everyone.

Bottom line is - do you admit :

1) the numerous substantive factually incorrect statements (I won't call them lies -but I haven't seen any retraction of the glaring errors to date) of that letter

AND

2) do you agree that an agency should not "stand by" an instructor who caused the death of a child by the reckless repeated disregard of the training standards he was supposed to follow as suggested by the letter?

If not then I guess we have very different perspectives on what is true both in reality and in a public safety perspective...

 

[Wookie]

Indeed. Some have tried to pull strings from the back ground. Some started participating and bugged out when challenged. Ethics have been at the core of this whole discussion. It's been kind of disappointing that we have seen the bad side of this.

When I pull back the curtain, I wonder why I ever left government service.....

 

[The Chairman]

Dan, it's not a sleight of hand on Wookie's part. He's stinking loyal to his friends. Is he loyal to a fault? Maybe to their fault, but the Wookster's one of the very good guys in all of this.

However, I agree with you that the 'point' of Brian's letter became rather moot when the premise of the letter was demonstrated to be fallacious. It's got to be frustrating for him in that regard. He thought he had PADI by the short and curlies only to have his grand slam negated by a few salient, albeit inconvenient facts. Too bad, so sad. Should have checked your sources a bit better.

 

[Omisson]

Dan, it's not a sleight of hand on Wookie's part. He's stinking loyal to his friends. Is he loyal to a fault? Maybe to their fault, but the Wookster's one of the very good guys in all of this.

However, I agree with you that the 'point' of Brian's letter became rather moot when the premise of the letter was demonstrated to be fallacious. It's got to be frustrating for him in that regard. He thought he had PADI by the short and curlies only to have his grand slam negated by a few salient, albeit inconvenient facts. Too bad, so sad. Should have checked your sources a bit better.

Doc,

I'm not questioning Wookie's integrity -only his objectivity.

Believe it or not I'd trust him with a family member on a dive he's shown over and over his competence and sound judgment. I also think him to be a man of his word.

Further I enjoy having a strong counterpoint in any discussion and he's usually among the best here on the board, But at some point there has to be intellectual honesty when the facts come out- about even a best friend's actions.

The letter was riddled with untrue accusations. They were never retracted. I would hope no agency stands by an instructor who tragically cut short the life of a boy scout just to earn a few bucks- by breaking half a dozen safety standards and federal law (diving hydro expired scuba tanks).

I hate many lawyers too... My profession is riddled with ambulance chasers, and this case has more than its fair share of sleaze. But to deny the fundamental reality that there were only two at fault here, the instructor and parents- is emblematic of the excuse riddled society of namby-pamby pass the buck self centered sheeple we have gone down the road of becoming. I know Wookie's not in that group- but why defend those who are?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Some of us bailed because we are taking all of this in with an open mind and using it all to formulate a way to encourage thought among those considering taking part in these experiences. Those actually conducting them and those organizing them. Removing oneself from the conversation and becoming an observer allows a more clinical approach to that. No one is 100% right. No one is 100% wrong. Finding the middle and using the lessons that one can garner from all parties necessitates not being with any of them.

 

[Wookie]

You know it's damn frustrating when you try and pull a sleight of hand like this.

Can I ask- what was the "message" in the letter? What was the important point being brought out to be discussed in the industry?

I've read it a dozen times.

Your post intimates somehow "we" just didn't get it.

Seems to me the author never actually SAID anything that would give us a hint as to what it was that was/is worth discussing....

Since the letter went out scattershot- still seems to me it's the fault of the author -not the targets hit by the buckshot...

I could go line for line through the letter and really make my point but I'll spare everyone.

Bottom line is - do you admit :

1) the numerous substantive factually incorrect statements (I won't call them lies -but I haven't seen any retraction of the glaring errors to date) of that letter

AND

2) do you agree that an agency should not "stand by" an instructor who caused the death of a child by the reckless repeated disregard of the training standards he was supposed to follow as suggested by the letter?

If not then I guess we have very different perspectives on what is true both in reality and in a public safety perspective...

I cannot speak for someone else. All I can do is reflect on what I read here. What I read here is that the tragedy is that a kid died needlessly. I'm going to open myself up to a lot of hurt and say that kids die needlessly every day, and they always have, by misadventure, by pushing too hard, by peer pressure, by being bullied, and they commit suicide, so to me, the tragedy isn't that a kid died, although it is certainly a tragedy, the tragedy is that a kids death has been politicized by some in the industry to push an agenda.

this isn't about a kids death. If it is, excuse me for not seeing the light. This is about a deliberate lowering and relaxing of standards and attitudes so that a kid can die so easily. And, no, I don't think that you (both the royal and the global you) don't get it, I think you see it just as clearly as I do. I think it's about an insurance agent who sees too many stupid lawsuits he has to defend, so he lashes out the only way he knows, by creating lowered standards. Then, he convinces the agency president he represents to carry his torch. Then, he picks a case.

i think most here can agree that, since they have been instructors (I would have gotten my 20 year PADI pin this year) they have seen some terrible instruction. Heck, must of us have told our anecdotes in this or one of the other threads on the subject. Why, then do we continue to see this. Why did every candidate in my wife's IE fail in my opinion, yet all became dive instructors? Why did I pay $500 with no evaluation to become an SDI instructor? Better yet, how was that allowed to happen? WHY ARE OUR STANDARDS SO CRAPPY THAT ANYONE CAN BECOME A DIVE INSTRUCTOR? Do I feel elite? No, I feel kind of slimy, knowing who my peers are.

So here is an insurance agent spending boucoup bucks defending piss poor dive instructors and he wants to know why PADI didn't QA him out before he got a kid dead? He wants to know how I became an instructor, and have been one for 18 years, but haven't taught a class in 15, have never attended an update, have never read the Undersea Journal, haven't looked at the instructor manual since the IDC, etc. but, he can't ask those questions, because the agency he represents follows the same policies. So he convinces the leader of 'his' agency to write a letter and thrash the (my opinion) leader of this downward slide.

i know an SDI/TDI instructor who is not in teaching status with his agency because he is a "target for lawsuits". So I do agree that agencies don't stand by their instructors in certain cases. They did, however, when he needed them most, because he didn't violate standards, he's just a "target for lawsuits". In hindsight, knowing more of the story, I understand why PADI expelled our subject instructor. I wonder, however, if he had been insured by V&B if they would have dropped him so quickly. Well never know, because he wasn't.

to answer your first question, I do not need to admit to any factually incorrect statements. They weren't and aren't mine to make, and I didn't make them.

 

[Ayisha]

According to DAN, the most frequent cause of deaths while Scuba diving are preexisting medical conditions. To put that in layman's terms: they died regardless of being on Scuba. I'm not so sure why you're trying to rule this possibility out?

I'm not trying to rule the possibility out. I'm trying to not rule out other possibilities. I responded due to the fact that some posters have stated definitively that asthma contributed to the child's death, and one has said that it was an AGE, but none have backed up their claim. The cause of death or actual contributing factors should be determined by the coroner, not posters on SB. It's one thing to suggest possibilities, it's quite another to state definitively a cause of death not supported by evidence.

 

[Zippsy]

My guess is that asthma didn't kill him. It just didn't save him as it probably could / should have.

 

[The Chairman]

the tragedy is that a kids death has been politicized by some in the industry to push an agenda.

This has been my problem from the beginning.

Frank, before I became "NetDoc: the doctor for you NetWork is 'in'" and subsequently the owner of SB, I made my living in the automotive field. I can't tell you how many rip off mechanic stories I have endured, but they far and away exceed the crappy instructor stories by several quantum. Yes, they have resulted in people being hurt and even killed too. I held the ASE Master Auto and Truck Technician ratings, but please don't tell boat peeps that I have diesel skills. I realized then, as I realize now, that I am not defined by the incompetents in my field, though they be legion. Instead, I practiced, studied and learned my craft so as to set myself apart from the herd. When I worked for Goodyear, those very skills got me promoted to being a Service Manager. At that time, the words of a long gone associate came back to me: "There is no such thing as a bad mechanic: only bad managers!" Consequently, I turned my efforts from understanding automotive systems to understanding theoe a-holes, er I mean mechanics or auto technicians if you want to get fancy. It was my first foray into herding kittens and while I sucked at the beginning, I got the hang of it and Goodyear started to put me into poorly run stores to turn them around.

My last store was my most stellar success. It was the second largest store in Orlando, but it was losing ground and fast. To be sure, my friendliness towards both customers and associates served me well. It became my goal to treat each and every customer as a friend and that meant not trying to over sell each one and breaking bad news as painlessly as I could. I cared and it worked. It worked well. It worked so well that they gave me an assistant which meant I got a twenty percent reduction in pay. You couldn't tell it with our increases, so it didn't matter. We averaged a %27 increase over the previous year each and every month. Within three years, my Goodyear was the largest in the world. No magic. No deceptions. Just honest caring service to my friends. I got calls from Goodyear corporate management wanting to know my secret. Be nice, I said but they just didn't believe me. They even sent a guy just to figure out what I was doing right. He never caught on because he was an arrogant prick. At this point, they decided that I had too much business so they 'gave' me another service manager. My salary was cut by close to %40. That was my reward for doing such a stellar job. The new guy tried to oversell so he could match my numbers. I gave them a two month notice and left. I wanted no part in this and was ready to be a network consultant instead. I realized then that there was no such thing as a bad service manager, only bad corporate culture. In their desire for more market share, they had lost sight of their reason for existence: treating their customers and associates with human respect, dignity and friendliness.

There are many reasons to be an instructor. Obviously, you do it for reasons other than teaching the world to dive and that probably has a lot to do with running a liveaboard. I became an instructor because I was truly horrified at the incompetence of the instructors I worked with. There was only one that inspired me at all, Brian Mobley. He wasn't perfect, but he was far better than the others. To be sure, I don't expect to change this industry. I just want to do a superlative job with the students that have given me their trust. We choose who to emulate. I try to get my students to emulate me. When I became an instructor I tried to emulate MB here on ScubaBoard. When I now look for inspiration higher than myself, the only one I can find worth emulating is Scott Evans, the CEO of NASE. Its one of the reasons why the bulk of my students are NASE. It's not that Scott is perfect either, but most all the other CEOs I know seem to be ethically challenged or compromised. Even then, I am not defined by the incompetents in my field. I am defined by me and me alone in how I teach and even in how I manage this community.

 

[Wookie]

This has been my problem from the beginning.

Frank, before I became "NetDoc: the doctor for you NetWork is 'in'" and subsequently the owner of SB, I made my living in the automotive field. I can't tell you how many rip off mechanic stories I have endured, but they far and away exceed the crappy instructor stories by several quantum. Yes, they have resulted in people being hurt and even killed too. I held the ASE Master Auto and Truck Technician ratings, but please don't tell boat peeps that I have diesel skills. I realized then, as I realize now, that I am not defined by the incompetents in my field, though they be legion. Instead, I practiced, studied and learned my craft so as to set myself apart from the herd. When I worked for Goodyear, those very skills got me promoted to being a Service Manager. At that time, the words of a long gone associate came back to me: "There is no such thing as a bad mechanic: only bad managers!" Consequently, I turned my efforts from understanding automotive systems to understanding theoe a-holes, er I mean mechanics or auto technicians if you want to get fancy. It was my first foray into herding kittens and while I sucked at the beginning, I got the hang of it and Goodyear started to put me into poorly run stores to turn them around.

My last store was my most stellar success. It was the second largest store in Orlando, but it was losing ground and fast. To be sure, my friendliness towards both customers and associates served me well. It became my goal to treat each and every customer as a friend and that meant not trying to over sell each one and breaking bad news as painlessly as I could. I cared and it worked. It worked well. It worked so well that they gave me an assistant which meant I got a twenty percent reduction in pay. You couldn't tell it with our increases, so it didn't matter. We averaged a %27 increase over the previous year each and every month. Within three years, my Goodyear was the largest in the world. No magic. No deceptions. Just honest caring service to my friends. I got calls from Goodyear corporate management wanting to know my secret. Be nice, I said but they just didn't believe me. They even sent a guy just to figure out what I was doing right. He never caught on because he was an arrogant prick. At this point, they decided that I had too much business so they 'gave' me another service manager. My salary was cut by close to %40. That was my reward for doing such a stellar job. The new guy tried to oversell so he could match my numbers. I gave them a two month notice and left. I wanted no part in this and was ready to be a network consultant instead. I realized then that there was no such thing as a bad service manager, only bad corporate culture. In their desire for more market share, they had lost sight of their reason for existence: treating their customers and associates with human respect, dignity and friendliness.

There are many reasons to be an instructor. Obviously, you do it for reasons other than teaching the world to dive and that probably has a lot to do with running a liveaboard. I became an instructor because I was truly horrified at the incompetence of the instructors I worked with. There was only one that inspired me at all, Brian Mobley. He wasn't perfect, but he was far better than the others. To be sure, I don't expect to change this industry. I just want to do a superlative job with the students that have given me their trust. We choose who to emulate. I try to get my students to emulate me. When I became an instructor I tried to emulate MB here on ScubaBoard. When I now look for inspiration higher than myself, the only one I can find worth emulating is Scott Evans, the CEO of NASE. Its one of the reasons why the bulk of my students are NASE. It's not that Scott is perfect either, but most all the other CEOs I know seem to be ethically challenged or compromised. Even then, I am not defined by the incompetents in my field. I am defined by me and me alone in how I teach and even in how I manage this community.

And that's well and good and as it should be. But there were 3 and now 2 insurers in this biz. We aren't like auto mechanics, there just aren't that many of us, and there isn't an Angie's List for dive instructors. You are right, by my insurance policy, I must remain an insured, current instructor. So I find the least expensive most liberal agency I can and throw my hat in their ring, but make no mistake, you won't find me teaching an introductory class because I'm not good at it. I'm out of practice. It's why I don't adjust Quadrajunk carburetors, either. Not everyone has the same ethics you do, Pete. That's what were really screaming about.