An Open Letter of Personal Perspective to the Diving Industry by NetDoc
- Thread starter The Chairman
- Start date
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KevinNM
Contributor
I suspect the students thought this was great and would have said the class was great on an eval. Based on your much greater experience in diving and understanding of the risks did YOU think this was unsafe and reasonable likely to lead to "bad things" happening? If so, what did you do about it?
A survey that just asks vague questions like that is not very valuable. The survey will ask specific questions about how the class was run using specific wording from the standards. I have not seen it, but I would not be surprised to find it asking if the class was conducted in an overhead environment, which is a clear violation.
About 10 years ago, when I was still a DM assisting classes, the instructor for which I assisted most often on OW dives had to deal with a bad response on a survey. In response to a question, a student had written that the CESA had been conducted without the use of an ascent line, which is a standards violation. The student was wrong. All ascents were always done from a platform suspended from four floats. Each student was taken up the line to the float, exactly as required by standards. PADI investigated and was satisfied with his response.
In my 3rd year of diving, long before I ever considered becoming a professional, I reported a terrible standards violation I witnessed. I was diving in Fiji, and for two days of diving our group was accompanied by a young man who was clearly not very experienced. He went through his air quickly, at which point the DM sent him to the surface on his own while the rest of us completed the dives. On the second day, he did not do the second dive because he partook too heavily of the hot dogs provided for lunch during the surface interval and did not feel well. When we got back to the shop, I saw him meeting with someone briefly and then coming back with certification documents. I asked him about it, and he said that the person he had just met with was his instructor. He was really happy because the instructor had counted the four dives over those two days--one of which he had not done--as his certification dives. He had done no skills during those dives, and his instructor was not even present.
As soon as I got home, I wrote to PADI and described what I had seen. I got a letter back promptly thanking me for the report and promising that the incident would be properly investigated and handled appropriately.
If you did see a standards violation such was was described, here is the PADI Quality Management web site. You will not only be given the email address you can use for the process, you will get a link to the course evaluation surveys in case you want to see what they say.
---------- Post added December 24th, 2014 at 11:35 AM ----------
QM@padi.com
If you want to phone it in, you call the main number and ask to be transferred:
800 729 7234 (US and Canada)
As soon as I got home, I wrote to PADI and described what I had seen. I got a letter back promptly thanking me for the report and promising that the incident would be properly investigated and handled appropriately.
If you did see a standards violation such was was described, here is the PADI Quality Management web site. You will not only be given the email address you can use for the process, you will get a link to the course evaluation surveys in case you want to see what they say.
---------- Post added December 24th, 2014 at 11:35 AM ----------
QM@padi.com
If you want to phone it in, you call the main number and ask to be transferred:
800 729 7234 (US and Canada)
Main PADI website - Contact Us:
Wasn't too hard to find.
As the web page shows - feel free to report anything you wish. Notice it states "not-so-great experiences".
"On the other hand, when members deviate from standards, the Quality Management Program acts to get them back on track. You may also share a not-so-great experiences with an email to QM@padi.com."
R
redacted
Guest
Thanks.
For those who have not seen the PADI OW questionnaire:
For those who have not seen the PADI OW questionnaire:
| | | | Course Evaluation Questionnaire
|
I'm impressed. Are you?Thanks.
For those who have not seen the PADI OW questionnaire:
Yes No N/A Does the Instructor’s name on your certification card match the name of the person who conducted your last open water training dive? (If you do not have your card yet, please check with your PADI Instructor, Dive Center or Resort.) Did you complete your course as a referral student? (That is, did you begin your training at one location with one instructor, and finish at another location with a different instructor?) Did you fill out a Medical Questionnaire before any in-water training? (This is a list of questions about any medical conditions you have or had at the start of the course.) Did you have your own PADI Open Water Diver Manual (or the Multimedia CD-Rom or access through the PADI Open Water Diver Course Online) for study and use during the course, and for reference after the course? Did you have your own Recreational Dive Planner (Table or eRDPML) or How to Use and Choose Dive Computer Manual for study and use during the course, and for reference after the course? Did a PADI Instructor test your theory knowledge by writing OR oral quizzes and a final exam (or Quick Review if you completed the PADI Open Water Diver Course Online)? Did you learn how to use the Recreational Dive Planner (either the eRDPML or Table version) or Dive Computer? Did you first learn and practice water skills in a pool or confined water? (Confined water is a site that offers calm conditions, for example, a protected area in a lake or ocean.) At some point prior to certification, did you complete a: • 200 metre/yard non-stop surface swim OR a 300 metre/yard swim with mask, snorkel and fins? • 10-minute swim/float? During your pool/confined water skills development sessions, did you practice: Equalizing your ears and mask? Finding/locating your regulator and clearing it of water? Breathing underwater without a mask? Removing, replacing and clearing your mask of water? Buoyancy Control (such as hovering)? Out of air/low on air emergency exercises? Disconnecting the hose from your BCD while in the water? Did you complete at least four separate scuba training dives in open water (ocean, quarry, lake, etc.) during your course? Did you make the open water training dives on at least two different days? Did your first two open water training dives take place between 5 metres (minimum) and 12 metres (maximum) or 15 feet (minimum) and 40 feet (maximum)? Did your last two open water training dives take place between 5 metres (minimum) and 18 metres(maximum) or 15 feet (minimum) and 60 feet (maximum)? Did a PADI Instructor observe and evaluate your skills underwater during the open water training dives? During your open water training dives, did you do the following skills: Remove and replace your mask underwater? Compass navigation at the surface and underwater? Buoyancy control? (such as hovering) Remove and replace your weights or weight system at the surface? Alternate air source (such as an octopus) ascent? Perform a Tired Diver Tow? Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent (CESA)? (This skill is a simulated out-of-air ascent where you and your instructor ascend to the surface together next to a line while you exhale [making an “ahh” sound] all the way to the surface). If you made a controlled emergency swimming ascent did your instructor do
the following:Hold onto you? Use an ascent/control line (for example an anchor line)? (If you were looking up and did not see if the instructor was using a line or not, please choose “unsure.” Ascend with you all the way to the surface? Upon reaching the surface, did your instructor ask you to either orally inflate your BCD or drop your weights? If you have any comments, please write them below:
R
redacted
Guest
Very much so. Particularly in light of the other versions including DSD. I have not yet figured a way to see the DSD version yet. Perhaps someone else can help. Did these things exist 2 years ago? In any event, they have the potential to be quite effective.
Turned out to be much easier to get to than I had thought. The agency is clearly not trying to hide these things. The agency is clearly headed down the right road.
| Course Evaluation Questionnaire
|
EDIT: I have seen a number of surveys in other fields that did open a door for comments but were primarily designed to fish for at-a-boys. These surveys seem to put most of the questions directly on the issue of standards compliance.
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
Then you would never begin to understand your ignorance. I have no problems with you questioning or making the most obtuse recommendations. You've done both and several have responded to them, indicating just why they won't work. You don't get it. It's OK to not get it. I'm telling you why you don't get it. Fortunately, most of the people, many of whom are not instructors, do get it. Some didn't and now they do. Here's hoping you do as well... someday.
Bear vs shark (vs prey or victim) is also a semantic difference. Doctor vs Surgeon is also a semantic difference. They fill entirely different LEO niches and as I pointed out, the difference can be felt in the community.
What's happening now: violators get reported (caught) and punished.
What you're recommending: Big Brother looking over my shoulder.
It's a huge, huge difference in my eyes.
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