AN / DP in sidemount or backmount?

[kafkaland]

That's an interesting take on this, TBone. I hadn't heard about the PSAI course, and I will definitely look into it. Getting exposed to different experiences as part of cave training makes sense, of course. I had been thinking about doing a few guided dives with an instructor in Florida to complement the training in the Mexican caves. Experience caves with flow, for instance.

 

[tbone1004]

if you want to experience caves with flow, then the best solution is to just get through full cave with Edd and/or Michal at Cave Adventurers, after you get a few dives after and if you really need O2 deco or want to go through, then come back and look at the PSAI course, I think it is 2/3 days or so since all of the dives require both stage bottles and deco which is convenient, and you'll have a diverse training experience.

 

[victorzamora]

it makes sense to combine AN/DP with the stage course. I can't remember what the official course is called, but my buddy was the first one to take the course with Michal after he and Edd wrote the combined course. It's worth the call....

I can't agree with this sentiment, recommend the combo, or recommend those instructors enough. I'm the "buddy" that took that course. Cave Staged Deco Procedures. It's basically an AN/DP course that's specifically geared towards cave diving. Planning an OW tech dive is easy, and completing one just requires good buoyancy, LOTS of patience, and a P-Valve on your drysuit (ask me how I know ). Planning a tech dive in a cave requires a little more effort and a little bit more creativity than OW. There are different considerations in OW, of course, and you'll certainly be fully aware of those before you pass that course with those instructors. The other great thing about them is they don't view deco as a nuisance, but as a means to an end. It's simply another toll one must pay....and they make sure you learn to pay it properly.

Feel free to ask questions, PM or otherwise, regarding the course....but I recommend your first step be to contact one of them if you're considering this.

 

[TracyN]

Don't limit yourself to just Edd. Interview any potential instructors because there are some good ones out there who won't preach that their way is the best way and everyone else sucks. You will get to learn in your equipment and not equipment that any one particular instructor sells. Michal would be a very good choice.

 

[victorzamora]

Don't limit yourself to just Edd. Interview any potential instructors because there are some good ones out there who won't preach that their way is the best way and everyone else sucks.

How many classes have you taken from Edd? I've taken a few from him, and a few from Michal Turek (his head instructor). Neither of them ever said that or implied it. In fact, Edd has changed his setup multiple times to improve it since I've been there. Edd teaches top-mounted stages. I explained why I bottom mount mine. He said, "Cool, that makes sense." He saw me in the water, said it looked good, and that was that. My way wasn't wrong, it was simply different. To Edd and Michal, there's never a "what without a why." If you have a good "why" then there's no problem with your "what."

 

[Doppler]

Thanks, TBone. A combined course with my cave instructor was of course my first thought, too. But when I mentioned it, it was quite clear that he is not passionate about the AN/DP stuff, and mostly sees it as a nuisance to enable longer cave dives, which he is passionate about. That's where the thought and his implied suggestion to do it locally with another instructor came from. But when I started to look for an instructor in my neck of the woods, the instructors I found were usually of the backmount doubles variety, with a "you can do sidemount if you insist" attitude. And given my poor experience with my initial sidemount course (an instructor who wasn't that proficient and passionate about it), I don't think I need a repeat of that. So that's where the idea of "why not just learn doubles" came from. Or, if I can't find a suitable instructor locally, a trip to Florida may be in order.

I teach sm open-circuit at all levels including full cave and certainly advanced nitrox and helitrox deco. It does not make sense to do something in twins if you are not going to dive them regularly.

By the way, I teach in Michigan sometimes too... but not this time of year!

---------- Post added April 8th, 2015 at 06:36 AM ----------

That's an interesting take on this, TBone. I hadn't heard about the PSAI course, and I will definitely look into it. Getting exposed to different experiences as part of cave training makes sense, of course. I had been thinking about doing a few guided dives with an instructor in Florida to complement the training in the Mexican caves. Experience caves with flow, for instance.

OH, and I have a cavern intro cave class in Florida starting April 23... you can tag along and be "guided" for the last few days or the weekend if you wish.

 

[nakatomi]

In my experience, a solid knowledge of decompression procedures is essential for cave diving, unless you have the pleasure of diving the Mexican caves exclusively.
Sidemount as a configuration is very flexible, it can easily handle two large steel tanks and up to maybe four additional aluminum stages.
Since this is what you are diving now, I would not consider switching to backmount.

As to the AN/DP training, my advice would be to consider doing the class in a cave and with a cave instructor, if that is where you plan to do your decompression dives in the future.

Now people tend to recommend their own instructors, for very obvious reasons. So I will recommend someone whom I have just observed teaching, heard great things about and highly respect, Paul Heinerth.
You will have a hard time finding anyone with more experience teaching cave diving, sidemount and decompression diving. And he is not only a great instructor, but can be a great mentor too.

 

[victorzamora]

That's an interesting take on this, TBone. I hadn't heard about the PSAI course, and I will definitely look into it. Getting exposed to different experiences as part of cave training makes sense, of course. I had been thinking about doing a few guided dives with an instructor in Florida to complement the training in the Mexican caves. Experience caves with flow, for instance.

I don't know why I skipped over this....but it makes a lot more sense now why your instructor is averse to AN/DP training. Most mexican caves are pretty aggressively outside of the realm of deco diving. I mean, there's plenty of deco to be had down there....but you almost have to look for it.

Now people tend to recommend their own instructors, for very obvious reasons.

I will say, here, that while I loved these two instructors....I have properly despised and even reported previous instructors of mine. I returned to Edd and Michal because of high standards and valuable lessons....but I have experience with many instructors and chose to continue with them. The other funny note: tbone, who suggested them first, hasn't taken a class from Edd or Michal.

However, that is a very good point in general. I very often see people only taking training from one instructor and thinking they're as good as it gets. It's a limited view on life and diving. Some of the most incompetent instructors I've come across have a following of fans.