An Attempt at Understanding DIR

[nadwidny]

We get the bad experience. But it's pretty clear there's not much we can do here to dispel that. The OP over several threads has declined to provide any geographic information, ...

Likely Minnesota. Started diving in April 07.

 

[Kingpatzer]

We get the bad experience. But it's pretty clear there's not much we can do here to dispel that.

I'm sorry I don't change over the course of a few posts. I'm actually learning a lot in this thread though, sorry if it doesn't show.

Some things I've learned:

1) my experience may not be so atypical as some would try to make it - at least several posters have noted the same kind of interactions.
1a) such attitudes tend to be local anomolies
1b) or newly through DIRf

2) GUE's materials may not be reflective of the current organizational attitudes as they are dated and were authored when more vociferous fights were underway
2a) those fights themselves have a history
2b) some who were around for those fights - both inside and outside the DIR community still are letting that frame their interactions

3) GUE as an organization is much smaller than I assumed, which explains why materials are not updated to reflect what current organizational attitudes are

Please don't assume that because I'm not saying "oh, I see, i was completely wrong and entirely mis-understood everything" that I'm not paying attention or learning. Heck, I'm reading their publications, I'm really doing my best not to post from ignorance here.

Oh, and I get that my rhetorical style can annoy the crud out of some people. I bet I'd have fit right in a few years back given the history lessons here

 

[Gombessa]

Likely Minnesota. Started diving in April 07.

I'm not trying to out the guy if he doesn't want to post his location (this is at least the third time he's tacitly ignored an appeal to put him in touch with local divers, so it's pretty clear he'd like to remain anonymous on that front).

I'm sorry I don't change over the course of a few posts. I'm actually learning a lot in this thread though, sorry if it doesn't show.

Nobody's expecting you to turn 180 degrees about, it's just that continually falling back to, "Yeah, so you say, but those guys I met in person were still jerks," clearly suggests that person-to-person interaction is what it takes to make a more meaningful impression. If that's indeed the case, you've got a number of invites and options if ever your time/budget/interest permits.

I'm glad to see the thread was ultimately beneficial for you.

 

[Kingpatzer]

If that's indeed the case, you've got a number of invites and options if ever your time/budget/interest permits.

Indeed. I'd love to take TSandM up on Seattle. I've always loved the cold water aquarium exhibits more than the tropical stuff. Seeing sea whips and giant octopus would thrill me to no end. That and diving a kelp forest are probably my two big dream dives. 4 kids, 2 dogs, a mortgage and a stay-at-home mom wife make that a bit of a stretch when everyone else wants to do the Caribbean when we manage a vacation.

I'm glad to see the thread was ultimately beneficial for you.

Thanks, and I apologize again for writing in a way that may have come across as a troll. That is not my intent.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Some things I've learned:

1) my experience may not be so atypical as some would try to make it - at least several posters have noted the same kind of interactions.
1a) such attitudes tend to be local anomolies
1b) or newly through DIRf

1) atypical, but not unique ... the percentage of jerks in the DIR community are, in my experience, no larger than the percentage of jerks found elsewhere in the diving community.
1a) anomolies, but not subject to any given locale ... I was surprised at the virulence of anti-DIR sentiment during my recent Florida trip.
1b) newly-converted anything tends to be vocal about it ... talk to someone who just gave up smoking, for example. That's why we encourage the newly-DIFR'd to adopt the 30-day gag rule ... it keeps 'em from embarrassing themselves.

2) GUE's materials may not be reflective of the current organizational attitudes as they are dated and were authored when more vociferous fights were underway
2a) those fights themselves have a history
2b) some who were around for those fights - both inside and outside the DIR community still are letting that frame their interactions

2) GUE is not a static organization. Like any business, it adapts to the needs of its clients, as well as constantly puts effort into optimizing its product. As a result, things that were taught a certain way as little as 2 years ago may not be taught the same way today.

2a and 2b) Not necessarily ... the vast majority of GUE-trained divers neither involve in, nor particularly care, about what you refer to as "fights" ... they just want to develop good diving skills, and see DIR as a system that works for them. Seek out and go diving with some of these folks ... it'll dispel a great deal of your misperceptions about what the program's all about.

3) GUE as an organization is much smaller than I assumed, which explains why materials are not updated to reflect what current organizational attitudes are

And like any small business, they have to decide what's important and prioritize their resources accordingly. For the vast majority of GUE clients, this works for them ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[b1gcountry]

KP and I exchanged some emails, and he was asking some pretty genuine questions. He lives somewhere where there is very little GUE influence.

1) atypical, but not unique ... the percentage of jerks in the DIR community are, in my experience, no larger than the percentage of jerks found elsewhere in the diving community.

I think the problem is that if you meet a run of the mill jerk, you tend to categorize them in the 'Jerks" category. If you meet a DIR Jerk, you categorize them in the 'DIR' category. I've also found that there's a third category for people who are only jerks when DIR is mentioned. Fear of the long hose or something.

Tom

 

[JeffG]

I've also found that there's a third category for people who are only jerks when DIR is mentioned. Fear of the long hose or something.

Long hose envy.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

.....
2) GUE is not a static organization. Like any business, it adapts to the needs of its clients, as well as constantly puts effort into optimizing its product. As a result, things that were taught a certain way as little as 2 years ago may not be taught the same way today. .......


And like any small business, they have to decide what's important and prioritize their resources accordingly. For the vast majority of GUE clients, this works for them ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

It seems to me that if an oganization is changing rapidly and the printed material is both outdated, yet seemingly vital to the process of educating people, that there should be some way to ensure that the "published material", regardless of wether it is printed or of an ELECTRONIC format, be kept reasonably up to date. Are there other more recent publications that are available to the public?

I ask for my own use, because I try to casually learn about the portions of DIR that are relevant to my diving.


I have one more question, I watched for years on the Tech Diver list (Aquanaut or something) the arguments and rantings of certain proponents, and based soley on my internet lurking, it appears to me that the organization has grown much slower than, what many (or most) people witihin the organization had expected. Is that true, or has the growth rate been "fast"?

 

[b1gcountry]

Jarrod's book is no longer course material for fundies. It is still pretty relevant in general, but there are some more or less minor details that are not true anymore.

If you are harping on training material though, take a look at anything TDI puts out.

Tom

 

[Rainer]

It seems to me that if an oganization is changing rapidly and the printed material is both outdated, yet seemingly vital to the process of educating people, that there should be some way to ensure that the "published material", regardless of wether it is printed or of an ELECTRONIC format, be kept reasonably up to date. Are there other more recent publications that are available to the public?

I ask for my own use, because I try to casually learn about the portions of DIR that are relevant to my diving.

What a riot.

First of all, GUE *does* post electronic updates of their supplements and procedural manuals, not to mention their standards and procedures. It's all on the GUE website.

Second, you seriously expect a re-printing of a book that's probably sold <1000 copies because 1% of it is out of date? All of which would be addressed anyway in an actual class?

Third, yeah, trying to learn all of this stuff on the internet for free can be a bitch. Sucks for you.