An argument for always having a snorkel

[seaducer]

You should not push people to do anything out of their comfort zone. If people feel better diving with certain equipment, there is really nothing wrong with it. To push other to do thing that you feel is dangerous is being a soup box preacher. You should explain how to proper use that equipment. That is what an good instructor does and let the person decide what works best for them.

FWIW I think that is what he is trying to do. The facts are that a snorkel attached to your mask is a hazard in some situations as it can get entangled or create drag in high current and rip your mask off. I do not wear one for that reason.

Rescue swimmers are not in SCUBA gear, so really the comparison is apples/oranges. Your trim and such is much different than the swimmers, as is your mission. I should qualify my next statement by saying I am not a rescue swimmer so I could be wrong, but I do believe the purpose of the snorkel for them is so they can get flat in the water and swim hard and not have to roll or pick their heads up to breath, not for use while treading water.

Anyway, back to the point, take one with you if you want to, don't if you don't. But if you decide to leave it attached to your mask while diving, be aware of the dangers and around entanglement hazards or in a stiff current keep a close watch on it.

 

[seaducer]

When your tanks are empty, String my dear chap, then your reg will do you no good.

At that point, if you are in really serious trouble, and alone, you may very likely need to ditch your tank and regs.

At which point you will then be a "snorkeler" and if you are indeed without the tube, because you did not bring it, you will be very hard pressed. You will then be doing a lot of breathholding, as you look down to see what is coming up to nibble on you, and you will certainly wish you had your snorkel with you, and further regret that you had given bad advice on ScubaBoard.

I don't think that String will think about the quality of his posts in the moments before Jaws' great grandson comes up for a love bite

I might pick at one of your thoughts though. Why would you want to ditch tank and reg? Weights I can see, but in order for you to ditch the tank you have to get out of your BC and thus lose most of your floatation.

If I am adrift I will drop my weights but I am staying in the rest of my gear. Besides, all that extra stuff make me bigger to the interested parties underwater, and easier for the interested airborne parties to see me also...

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

You should not push people to do anything out of their comfort zone. If people feel better diving with certain equipment, there is really nothing wrong with it. To push other to do thing that you feel is dangerous is being a soup box preacher. You should explain how to proper use that equipment. That is what an good instructor does and let the person decide what works best for them.

I can't agree with that completely ... although I do agree with the final two sentences. But, in fact, to an extent a good instructor does push people into doing things outside of their comfort zone ... that's how they will learn and improve as divers. And a good instructor also not only helps people decide what works best for them ... but also provides the context to help them decide under WHAT CONDITIONS it works best.

There are times when a snorkel attached to a mask is not the optimal way to dive ... and can in fact be less safe than not having it. Diving in places with known entanglement hazards such as kelp or fishing line is one of those. Diving in current, if at any point in that dive you anticipate not being able to drift with the current ... hanging onto an upline for example, if the current is strong enough.

Using a snorkel simply isn't appropriate in those applications ... at least not one that's attached to your mask, because it increases the risk of losing a mask. And if you've never attempted a maskless ascent, I recommend you try it sometime. It's not as simple as it might seem.

This conversation really has gone from the sublime to the ridiculous in a lot of ways ... among them being that many people have absolute stances one way or the other, and as in most things scuba you really need to consider the application ... conditions, gear configuration, potential hazards to name a few ... before deciding whether or not bringing the snorkel along is a good idea.

It's easy to sit in front of a keyboard and toss all sorts of hypothetical situations out there. The fact is that there may or may not be a high risk of encountering them. You have to weigh those risks and balance them against the advantages and disadvantages of the gear you choose to take with you ... just as you do virtually every other piece of gear you use, from the size cylinder you take to the type of BCD you're using to the type and quality of regulator you use to the type of exposure gear you wear.

Diving's all about risk management ... and while the decision to carry, or not, a snorkel represents one of the smaller risks a diver has to manage, the decision process is no different than with other pieces of gear ... you have to first consider the application.

All this talk of "this is dangerous" or "that is dangerous" is just downright silly unless you first consider the conditions under which the equipment will be used ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I might pick at one of your thoughts though. Why would you want to ditch tank and reg? Weights I can see, but in order for you to ditch the tank you have to get out of your BC and thus lose most of your floatation.

Once again ... it depends on the situation. If you've got a looooonnnnngggg way to swim ... like that DM in Taiwan last week ... you want to ditch the rig.

And if you're wearing exposure gear, most of your flotation is going to come from the neoprene (or drysuit undergarment) wrapped around your body ... which you're going to keep with you anyway. Once you ditch your weights, that BCD bladder isn't needed to keep you comfortably afloat.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[seaducer]

Once again ... it depends on the situation. If you've got a looooonnnnngggg way to swim ... like that DM in Taiwan last week ... you want to ditch the rig.

And if you're wearing exposure gear, most of your flotation is going to come from the neoprene (or drysuit undergarment) wrapped around your body ... which you're going to keep with you anyway. Once you ditch your weights, that BCD bladder isn't needed to keep you comfortably afloat.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Well, if you are faced with swimming a long way then I guess you would want to be as hydrodynamic as you can. Just floating around though...I plan to keep my stuff and reserve the right to change my mind if I need to

 

[quietstorm]

"Somebody go back and get a s**t load of dimes..."

What, did they put up some toll boothes in the ocean?

 

[shoturtle]

I can't agree with that completely ... although I do agree with the final two sentences. But, in fact, to an extent a good instructor does push people into doing things outside of their comfort zone ... that's how they will learn and improve as divers. And a good instructor also not only helps people decide what works best for them ... but also provides the context to help them decide under WHAT CONDITIONS it works best.

There are times when a snorkel attached to a mask is not the optimal way to dive ... and can in fact be less safe than not having it. Diving in places with known entanglement hazards such as kelp or fishing line is one of those. Diving in current, if at any point in that dive you anticipate not being able to drift with the current ... hanging onto an upline for example, if the current is strong enough.

Using a snorkel simply isn't appropriate in those applications ... at least not one that's attached to your mask, because it increases the risk of losing a mask. And if you've never attempted a maskless ascent, I recommend you try it sometime. It's not as simple as it might seem.

This conversation really has gone from the sublime to the ridiculous in a lot of ways ... among them being that many people have absolute stances one way or the other, and as in most things scuba you really need to consider the application ... conditions, gear configuration, potential hazards to name a few ... before deciding whether or not bringing the snorkel along is a good idea.

It's easy to sit in front of a keyboard and toss all sorts of hypothetical situations out there. The fact is that there may or may not be a high risk of encountering them. You have to weigh those risks and balance them against the advantages and disadvantages of the gear you choose to take with you ... just as you do virtually every other piece of gear you use, from the size cylinder you take to the type of BCD you're using to the type and quality of regulator you use to the type of exposure gear you wear.

Diving's all about risk management ... and while the decision to carry, or not, a snorkel represents one of the smaller risks a diver has to manage, the decision process is no different than with other pieces of gear ... you have to first consider the application.

All this talk of "this is dangerous" or "that is dangerous" is just downright silly unless you first consider the conditions under which the equipment will be used ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I did not disagree on any of your points, I know that certain types of dives require different equipment. Cave diving a snorkel on the mask is not the best thing, I can not agree more. But that is not what the OP was talking about or what I was talking about in rough seas, we spoke about how a snorkel would be a benefit.

With or without a snorkel, there is a danger in both. It is up to the individual diver to decide which one he/she would rather live with. I total agree that there is no absolute correct stance on this silly issue. And I have not taken an absolute position.

But as I was a military instructor for most of my army career, I was require to push solider to do things, but we would not push them until we knew they were capable of doing it, had the ability, understanding procedure and theory. If they did not have the ability, pushing them out of their comfort zone to do it, generally do not give us the results we were looking for.

But that is the Military. Scuba is suppose to be fun, if someone wants to learn something, show them how to do it properly. And let them decide if it is something they are comfortable with. Scuba has risks involved, and people could died. So let the individual decide. I would not push anything on anyone for this reason. Give them the pros and cons the equipment, and let them choose. It is that simple.

 

[shoturtle]

FWIW I think that is what he is trying to do. The facts are that a snorkel attached to your mask is a hazard in some situations as it can get entangled or create drag in high current and rip your mask off. I do not wear one for that reason.

Rescue swimmers are not in SCUBA gear, so really the comparison is apples/oranges. Your trim and such is much different than the swimmers, as is your mission. I should qualify my next statement by saying I am not a rescue swimmer so I could be wrong, but I do believe the purpose of the snorkel for them is so they can get flat in the water and swim hard and not have to roll or pick their heads up to breath, not for use while treading water.

Anyway, back to the point, take one with you if you want to, don't if you don't. But if you decide to leave it attached to your mask while diving, be aware of the dangers and around entanglement hazards or in a stiff current keep a close watch on it.

I have made surface swims in rough sea 5ft, in full scuba gear, and a snorkel does work. If you learn to use a snorkel properly, with full scuba gear. The snorkel works. That is the point I was try to make, while another poster said a snorkel with full scuba gear on will not work in rough sea is a misnomer.

So I pointed to the rescue swimmer, when they have all there gear on, then having to pull a person in rough seas to safety. They have more weight to deal with then the average scuba diver has to deal with. And the snorkel still works. So I was trying to point out the falseness of that statement.

PS

And the poster said he push people to against. No need to do that, explains the pros and cons of both. They let them choose.

I have no stance for or against snorkels. All I am saying is, if someone wants to dive with one, let it be. And if you do not like to dive with it, no one should push you to use one.

 

[Jim Ernst]

so does lead, a bag hanging on my back, a piece of glass dangling in front of my eyes, & a big ugly piece of rubber sticking in between my gums(get the picture)..........but...........all help keep me alive(get the picture).....

Sorry you need a snorkel to stay alive??

 

[bubba105]

I'm wondering, there are instructors here giving advice, to anyone who will listen, that a snorkel is the most useless piece of equipment ever. Do you tell your OW students this or do you let these birds fly, hoping they'll figure this out on their own. If you let them go without telling them, you are doing them a grave injustice, according to your own words. If you tell them, you go against the principles you are contracted to teach. Which way is it???

If I am in big water with 500 psi left in a tank & a snorkel, I use the snorkel. Reason being, if things don't go as planned (I don't make land or the boat), I can always take a break using the reg, get my act together & go back to the snorkel. Survival basics, never use what you have until absolutely necessary.