Am I being too hard on a LDS?

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Um, I guess you have never had food poisoning. If I see a roach I leave. No questions asked. If it's dirty, I leave. I've had food poisoning twice and I'd sooner go hungry than get it again.

You raised a good point about time in business. The neat one with the nice workbench has been in business 25 years. They are a 5 star PADI shop. The one that is messy is reasonably new.

You make a good point about knowledge and skill being the most important things. I'll take that into consideration.

I think that diving is alot like healthcare, you need to participate in the decisions about services because you will be subject to the outcome.

I'll throw one more tidbit back to you..... A restaurant with no line likely has bad food, bad service, or both. A restaurant with a line out the door is very likely to be good eats.

I think that all of the responses have been interesting. The most important thing I've read is that I should trust my instincts and that I'm not out of line for being critical when it comes to the safety of my equipment. That tells me what I need to know and I appreciate everyone's input.

Actually... I have had food poisoning more than once... both times salmonella poisening and both times from upscale super clean yuppy restaurants. I've eatin in some of the dirtiest places on earth in third world countries and not gotten sick...(I avoided the water.)

Actually the best way to tell a good restaurant is to look for the ones with the police cars and fire trucks parked in front of them. These guys know how to eat and they've got all day to ride around looking for the best food joints. While I agree a line can be a good sign - not always... as I usually have to wait an hour or more to get into the local Olive Garden... and I still haven't figured out why. As Italian goes it is bland and uninteresting... yet people line up and wait hours for it?

I would agree - go with your gut... which is essentially what I was saying : )

Cheers
 
I'm fairly certain I know the cluttered shop you are talking about. The owner is a good guy and great diver. You shouldn't have any issues with dive training there.
 
I agree with others to ultimately go with your gut. The fact that you are asking this question speaks to a deeper question you have as to whether you're focusing on the right things. I understand that question, I do it, too! Sounds like you're looking in the right places. Time will tell if it's a good fit.

As an armchair sociologist, I find "tribes" very interesting. Little did I know one of the most fascinating case studies I'd every come across in my life would come out of my decision to get certified as a diver. =-)

I'll start with the caveat that I'm barely across the starting line in this adventure -- finished PADI OW classes, pool in November, and open water dives/skills in a weekend in December. We are headed to Cozumel TOMORROW where I'll then instill myself fully by diving all week (hopefully). But even at this early stage, I'm obsessed. I love the theory. The gear. The exploration. I see this as the start of a long, long relationship with the water (warm and cold)!

As a result, I've spent a lot of time at the LDS or with a core group of people at dive club meetings, or extra pool sessions (not to mention ScubaBoard and Facebook). Spending money. Hanging out. Wasting time. Listening to people talk about gear and experiences. Lots of great people. Some blowhards, some show offs. Some people with huge passions, really big hearts and a desire to share this common interest.

The dive shop, in my opinion, could really need a good cleaning, a good overhaul of organization and a redesign by a person who has an eye towards merchandising and marketing. That's to put it nicely, but then again I tend toward the Type-A personality that strives for order and structure. The rental gear is in a semblence of order. The stuff you ask for can be found. The work areas are moderately organized. The "classroom" doubles as storage and party room which I think is the biggest image problem for me, still.

But they have the gear I need/want (or they can get it). I've seen them steer me toward something based on fit and function versus cost (and this was when I had my eye on the more expensive candy). I'm coming to trust them. Averaging my purchases out, I'm paying about the same as the lower end of online sellers. I'm happy to pay that or a little more because I know the overhead costs of running a traditional retail store, and I value their presence and service, and want to keep them around. They are a shop with a long history and no horror stories to be heard, or at least not that I've heard. They are spoken well of by other shops in area. Etc. The trust I have has developed over time, and continues to develop. It doesn't hurt that I really like the guys that own/run it.

On the one hand, I think they'd sell more if it were "fancier." But then again, would I come in and hang out as much if it was fancier? And if I didn't, would I have bought as much? Would I have made the connections that now make me feel almost guilty when I go with a friend in a nearby city to his dive shop? Would I feel like I was just going to a store, instead of feeling like I do which is almost like I've entered this whole new family of people?
 
Actually the best way to tell a good restaurant is to look for the ones with the police cars and fire trucks parked in front of them. These guys know how to eat and they've got all day to ride around looking for the best food joints.


More frequently than not, you will find them at places that offer free or discounted meals; White Castle, BK, McD's, ect....The logic doesn't work out exactly the way you see it....

P.S. I have first hand knowledge to substantiate this.......
 
The owner is a good guy and great diver. You shouldn't have any issues with dive training there.

I agree with what you say... however my post was about trusting this shop to do maintenance.

I thought about everything that everyone posted. One of the joys of the internet is hearing the different points of view.

In the end, I went where I am most comfortable. I completed my OW cert this past weekend and while there are some things I think could have been better, I have now completed my dive certification requirements.

I explicitly avoided naming names or giving enough information to 100 percent identify either shop because at the end of the day both shops are run by good folks. Each shop has it's own take on things and it's own way of doing things. I asked for, and got the tidbits I needed to help me make better decisions about evaluating things in the dive world.

At the end of the day I'm comfortable requiring maintenance on my equipment to be done by certified, trained technicians who have a orderly workspace that looks right. It should be well lit, large enough to do the job, and have tools and parts nearby. I'm willing to pay more to ensure that I'm comfortable with the maintenance on my gear. At the end of the day maintenance on dive gear isn't the place to bargain hunt.
 
Personally I'd prefer at least reasonably neat, certainly not squalid, especially for service and gear. And there's much to be said for following your instincts. But some people are just messy and it's not always obvious from appearances where you will get better training, gear, or service. The attitude of the owner and other folks might trump all though. The only sure ways to tell are to ask the right questions (sometimes hard when you're new) or get the opinions of experienced people who know the shops in question. Or of course, just try them and figure it out yourself over time.

I agree, $300 is too much to spend on basic gear. And you mention weights, there was a long thread recently on whether weights should be part of "required basic equipment" since you don't know up front how much you need or what sizes would be best. And if you only dive when traveling they'll be of no further use to you. (If you don't stick with diving, at least you might snorkel and make use of the other stuff.) Some places ask you to buy your own weights but I think most do not.
 

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