Am I being too hard on a LDS?

[diddydidit]

I'm a carpenter and a woodworker, my shop is somewhat clean but not super clean, but i'll tell you one pf the best furniture makers i;ve ever met, you cant even walk into his shop he's got so much **** everywhere. I think quality of workmanship is more important that what his shop looks like. But if your not comfortable go elsewhere

 

[tight rope walker]

I am not as concerned about looks as I am about experience. The shops that I have dealt with over the years are probably not the prettiest, but the people inside know their business. And to me at least, that is the deciding factor.

Right now in my work shop I have an onan 16 hp performer engine all over the place. I am rebuilding it to put it back in service asap in my bobcat welder. When I am done, I will clean up. But I am not done yet.

I agree with DCBC in that you may have a diamond in the rough.

 

[Hotpuppy]

I think you should go to the neater shop. You are obviously a very critical and meticulous person and you are already nit picking before the class starts. Heaven help you if the reg hose has a microscopic crack in it or the inflator is scratched.

You SHOULD have spent you time trying to get references from expereinced divers and picking the instructor that is better. However if a messy shop bothers you, then you better pick the neat one.

I appreciate your response. I apologize if my response hit too close to home for you. I think you misread most of what I said. Please see below.

I want to field some opinions on if I am being hard on a LDS. I do not want to bash so I am not going to name names or places. I am instead trying to get a feel for what is appropriate in the dive world.
...... The LDS I went with ..... The owner is a very knowledgeable diver and I feel that safety is important to him. He takes time to ensure that I am learning the material and was flexible with my concerns over weather. I was scheduled to my OW dives last weekend but the water temp was 51 degrees and the air temp was 30 and I asked if we could wait a week for better ambient temps.

Perhaps I could have been more specific and said that I had already completed classroom and CW dives.

- I did not berate the quality of the instructor. I think both shops offer quality, safe instruction.

- If the reg hose has a crack in it then any diver with a grain of common sense would replace it. Big cracks start from tiny ones and hoses aren't expensive.

"Ah the hell with it, it will be okay" hurts more people every day then "hmm, let's err on the side of caution and replace it."

You are free to dive with equipment that isn't maintained properly. Just as I am free to take equipment safety seriously. We all have different standards. I can afford the hose I can't afford to get injured.

I'll share with you with a mantra I tell my employees who work around equipment: "Safety takes a second, accidents are instant." I would encourage you not to teach others to disregard equipment condition.

By the time the rubber on a reg hose is cracking you can rest assured the seals are cracking and the inner liner is nearing it's service life too.

My original post was about what I should think about a messy workbench, disorganized shop, and apparent disregard for equipment. I'm not always meticulous, but I expect that when I hire a professional to do something that my life depends on that they take it as seriously as I do.

 

[Hotpuppy]

One thought I have is, have you expressed your concern? You may be doing him a huge favor.

Often LDS' owners are SCUBA enthusiasts that own a store (as opposed to a store owner that is in the SCUBA business). Sometimes they need reminders.

Heck, I have been married for a very long time & my wife still needs to remind me to pick up my socks.....

Tom,
You are making an excellent suggestion. I'm afraid it would come across the wrong way. I'm used to telling people what to do in my own business and a "hey this place is a mess ***" would probably come across like that, even if I wasn't trying to be a jerk.

You are correct that he is a diver with a store in the dive business as opposed to a business man with a store in the dive market.


I think it's mildly amusing though that both stores tuck the function in the back and out of sight. It's arguably one of the most important things an LDS competes on. You'll notice that car dealers prominently display their service department. Part of the reason is because it generates repeat sales when customers have good service experiences.

 

[tight rope walker]

I hope that I am not off base here, But some of the cleaner shops I have seen are,

1) do not do a lot of business,

or 2) have not been in business very long themselves.

This is very important equipment being worked on, as your life depends on it.

But once again, I can only speak for myself, I am more concerned about a mans' credentials, what he can do and what he has done, more so than looks.

After all, looks are deceiving.

 

[Hotpuppy]

I hope that I am not off base here, But some of the cleaner shops I have seen are,

1) do not do a lot of business,

or 2) have not been in business very long themselves.

This is very important equipment being worked on, as your life depends on it.

But once again, I can only speak for myself, I am more concerned about a mans' credentials, what he can do and what he has done, more so than looks.

After all, looks are deceiving.

You bring up a very good point. I intentionally left that aspect out because I do not want to bash either LDS. I am attempting to stay neutral in regards to identifying which shops.

A wise man once said never burn a bridge you might cross again.

I will say in this case that the clean shop is very successful and has been around a while.

 

[irishsquid]

Just remember: If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, what is an empty desk a sign of?...

Nice!

I don't like my dive shops or motorcycle shops to look clinically cleaned and boutique-like. I prefer a bit of rustic flavor to these shops.

A quick chat with the owner/operator/shop representative will tell me right away if they're full of BS or straight up, and that is what would determine my business.

I agree. My Harley goes to a buddy of mine for service and repairs. His shop is somewhat cluttered, but; he knows where every part and tool is and the quality of his work is exceptional. He turns out some gorgeous, screaming bikes. The dealership on the other hand is spotless, t-shirts, jewelery, and accessories are all in place and you could eat off the shop floor. However, the LAST time I had my bike serviced there, it cost nearly twice as much and when I left, I made it maybe 1 mile before the full tank of gas I had when I went there ran dry because they didn't put it back or fill it up. Wonder what else they forget!

I'm a carpenter and a woodworker, my shop is somewhat clean but not super clean, but i'll tell you one pf the best furniture makers i;ve ever met, you cant even walk into his shop he's got so much **** everywhere. I think quality of workmanship is more important that what his shop looks like. But if your not comfortable go elsewhere

Agree! Cleanliness and organization is not 100% guarantee of attention to detail.

 

[TSandM]

I completely understand your post.

To me, a work area that is organized, neat and clean is the sign of an organized, methodical and picky kind of mind. That's the kind of person I want taking something with a lot of little tiny parts apart and putting it back together again.

For sales, it's another thing. We have a dive shop here that is really beautiful. It's got good carpet, nice paint, excellent lighting, a well-organized sales floor and a big inventory. They'll also sell you stuff you don't need, and upsell you to what makes the best profit for the store. My LDS looks a bit shopworn and tattered. The carpet is old and the paint's not new. They don't have a huge inventory, but what they do have is good gear. AND they won't sell you the stuff the manufacturer wants them to push, if they don't think it's gear that will suit and serve you well. Those things are more important.

But for service . . . I take my gear to the first shop, where the service area looks like an operating room. It just makes me feel better.

 

[ppo2_diver]

Bill Gates once said "If you can't make it work, make it look pretty." Certainly having a neat and organized space is good, but you are looking for quality education and you should focus on that. If you think you will get a safe and great class from this store, then go for it. Having something that looks nice doesn't always mean it will work.

 

[diver 85]

hmmmm----"$300 on basic gear (fins/mask/snorkel/weights)"........they taking you for a ride, & not on a good one---------