Am I being too hard on a LDS?

[Hotpuppy]

I want to field some opinions on if I am being hard on a LDS. I do not want to bash so I am not going to name names or places. I am instead trying to get a feel for what is appropriate in the dive world.

There are several LDS' in my area.

One LDS had a better offer on the PADI OW. I chose to go there. My goal is to be properly certified so I can be a safe diver. However, I wasn't sure if I would enjoy diving and I was leery of spending $300 on the class and $300 on basic gear (fins/mask/snorkel/weights) to find out if I liked. The LDS I went with was $300 for the class and gear rental. The owner is a very knowledgeable diver and I feel that safety is important to him. He takes time to ensure that I am learning the material and was flexible with my concerns over weather. I was scheduled to my OW dives last weekend but the water temp was 51 degrees and the air temp was 30 and I asked if we could wait a week for better ambient temps.

My concerns:
- Class area is disorganized. There is a variety of non-diving items scattered in there much the way you would leave things sitting on a shelf. Over the course of a week some items did not move that probably should have. Things like a dirty countertop cooking appliance, misc computer parts, etc.

- Bench area: The bench where maintenance is performed reminds me of my garage. It is okay lit, but not bright. There are not dedicated tool storage locations. I'm uncomfortable thinking that precision work is being done here because it would be easy to loose a small part or not see something properly.

- Gear Storage: Some items are hung up and treated with respect. The first day we fit out my rental gear many items were in a pile. I'm sure the gear is okay, but I believe you don't maintain what you don't respect.


In contrast, I went into another LDS that is closer to my home.

- Classroom looks and feels like a classroom, not a break area.

- I asked to see the bench area and it looked like what I expected. It was clean, well lit, parts on hooks, tools in specific locations. They had tools to do flow testing (that I did not see at the other shop).

- The shop was well organized, clean and well stocked.

I believe that if you don't respect it you don't maintain it.

I don't want to confront the first LDS, but I also don't want to buy any major equipment or do any more training there.

While I like the first shop's owner, I'm uncomfortable having his shop do my maintenance. Am I being too picky? too demanding? Is it reasonable to have high expectations of what a dive shop classroom and maintenance area should look like?

 

[DCBC]

While I like the first shop's owner, I'm uncomfortable having his shop do my maintenance. Am I being too picky? too demanding? Is it reasonable to have high expectations of what a dive shop classroom and maintenance area should look like?

People keep their work areas differently. I'm a bit overly meticulous when it comes to diving equipment (and my shop and dive boat when I had it). That said, I've known a whole lot of divers in my day (especially commercially) that run their shops completely opposite; similar to what you have described.

Some of these guys are fanatical about diver safety and are extremely knowledgeable. I don't suggest you judge a book by its cover. Of course buy your equipment where you want to, but don't sell the Instructor short. He may well be a diamond in the rough.

 

[Aquabear]

Good question. You can never be too picky when it comes to your life. If you are uncomfortable - don't do it, plain and simple. The little guy/gal inside ur brain is saying - hmmm it's ok but.... somethins not right - and you should listen to him. Each dive shop has it's own personality, in tune with the people that are there daily. The shop maybe a great shop with experience and safety in mind but it may just not be the shop for you. The last few years I drive farther to a dive shop passin 3 or 4 just to get to one that I have a comfort level with. Only now I have decided to look into the one closest to me because I got a good reccomendation from someone who knows them. Listen to the mini me inside you, usually they are right.
Good luck.

 

[piikki]

- Class area is disorganized. There is a variety of non-diving items scattered in there much the way you would leave things sitting on a shelf. Over the course of a week some items did not move that probably should have. Things like a dirty countertop cooking appliance, misc computer parts, etc.

- Bench area: The bench where maintenance is performed reminds me of my garage. It is okay lit, but not bright. There are not dedicated tool storage locations. I'm uncomfortable thinking that precision work is being done here because it would be easy to loose a small part or not see something properly.

- Gear Storage: Some items are hung up and treated with respect. The first day we fit out my rental gear many items were in a pile. I'm sure the gear is okay, but I believe you don't maintain what you don't respect.

It does not make me feel warm and fuzzy either but I think I've seen quite a few of this type. Does not seem unusual to me.

You have a local choice at least.

 

[mikemill]

Just remember: If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, what is an empty desk a sign of?

If you don't like the shop don't go there. As a customer that is your prerogative. Just remember that sometimes the pretty shiny outside is just covering up the crap you can't see.

 

[offthewall1]

I want to field some opinions on if I am being hard on a LDS. I do not want to bash so I am not going to name names or places. I am instead trying to get a feel for what is appropriate in the dive world.

There are several LDS' in my area.

One LDS had a better offer on the PADI OW. I chose to go there. My goal is to be properly certified so I can be a safe diver. However, I wasn't sure if I would enjoy diving and I was leery of spending $300 on the class and $300 on basic gear (fins/mask/snorkel/weights) to find out if I liked. The LDS I went with was $300 for the class and gear rental. The owner is a very knowledgeable diver and I feel that safety is important to him. He takes time to ensure that I am learning the material and was flexible with my concerns over weather. I was scheduled to my OW dives last weekend but the water temp was 51 degrees and the air temp was 30 and I asked if we could wait a week for better ambient temps.

My concerns:
- Class area is disorganized. There is a variety of non-diving items scattered in there much the way you would leave things sitting on a shelf. Over the course of a week some items did not move that probably should have. Things like a dirty countertop cooking appliance, misc computer parts, etc.

- Bench area: The bench where maintenance is performed reminds me of my garage. It is okay lit, but not bright. There are not dedicated tool storage locations. I'm uncomfortable thinking that precision work is being done here because it would be easy to loose a small part or not see something properly.

- Gear Storage: Some items are hung up and treated with respect. The first day we fit out my rental gear many items were in a pile. I'm sure the gear is okay, but I believe you don't maintain what you don't respect.


In contrast, I went into another LDS that is closer to my home.

- Classroom looks and feels like a classroom, not a break area.

- I asked to see the bench area and it looked like what I expected. It was clean, well lit, parts on hooks, tools in specific locations. They had tools to do flow testing (that I did not see at the other shop).

- The shop was well organized, clean and well stocked.

I believe that if you don't respect it you don't maintain it.

I don't want to confront the first LDS, but I also don't want to buy any major equipment or do any more training there.

While I like the first shop's owner, I'm uncomfortable having his shop do my maintenance. Am I being too picky? too demanding? Is it reasonable to have high expectations of what a dive shop classroom and maintenance area should look like?

The best restaurants are the "dives," no pun intended. There may be a roach or two crawling around... but that's not so bad... kind of means the food is really good. I usually don't want to eat in the clean restaurants... the food isn't so hot and that's because they spend more time cleaning than cooking.

Now with all that said, dive shops aren't serving you food... but they may be maintaining your life support equipment... which one could argue is comparable to life sustaining food.

For the sake of playing devils advocate... lets say your dive shop has been in business 20 years in the same location and isn't the tidiest place on the block... and the other shop if the crisp clean shop in business for five years. Would you prefer 20 years of experience working on your regs or five? Not that duration makes one repair guy better than the other... which is just my point.

I've seen stores open 50 years have terrible regulator repair guys that can kill you and I've seen new shops open up with repair guys who do it right every time.

Dive shops are the proverbial box of chocolates. If what you see bothers you, pick another chocolate... but it doesn't mean it's going to taste better than the one you didn't pick.

The best you can do is talk to other divers in your area to see which one is more highly recommended... and then put your faith in the lord...

Based on everything you mentioned... it sounds like most dive shops I've been in... a little disorganized, a little bit dirty and run by a guy who probably knows his stuff.

Good Luck and Cheers to Happy and Safe Diving

 

[Wookie]

I know most of the shops in Houston. There is not a single shop there that I would warn people off from due to safety, or quality of instruction. As you proceed through certification, you will buy gear, which will likely be new when you buy it. By the time you need work done on it, you will have a better feel for how the shop you have chosen does their maintenance, keeps their equipment, etc. I think you need to give it time, and visit other shops. With the tremendous variety of dive shops in Houston, you will find one that is a good fit for you.

As a hint about their maintenance, one way to tell how they treat their gear is to ask for their latest air test. Florida law requires a test every quarter. When my boat was in Texas we used to do it every 6 months. If you find that their air test is older than 6 months, it will give you a hint about how their maintenance plan is. Any dive shop owner should be gratified to have you ask to see their test results. We spend a lot of money on those tests, and it would be nice if somebody asked to see them.

Frank

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I'm on my way to the shop now to do a pool session. The pool area is clean and organized because I spend time doing it because that is how I like to teach. I do classroom sessions in my home or the students. Mine is clean but there is some clutter. Most of it is dive related! Right now there is a set of doubles with new HOG regs sitting next to my TV. A stack of dive training magazines onthe coffee table, and a whiteboard and easel next to my fish tank. My home office/repair bench is filled with gear and there are two regs(my own) sitting on the bench awaiting service. I have an ultrasonic cleaner, vise, magnahelics, and Ip gauge mounted next to it. I don;t have a flowmeter as yet. I can use the shops anytime I want.

The shop bench area is used by me, the owner, and one or two other instructors. Sometimes tools do not get hung back up or put in their case. But they do not get lost and everyone who works on regs there knows what they are doing and we have a policy of if you service it you take in next door to the pool and get in the water with it before it goes back to the customer. Or you let one of the other instructor/techs dive it there. Nice having a pool on site. There are at times suits piled up. Like after they have just been rinsed and are dry. Hanging space is at a premium at times when things are busy.

It does not hurt suits that are dry to lay for a day or so until they can be gotten on hangers or rolled and stowed. I myself like to be organized but sometimes my way of organizing is closer to controlled chaos on my desk for example. But I know where every paper, business card, or contact is. Neat does not always mean good. It may mean too much time on someone's hands because the other guy who is not so organized has a better rep and is much busier!

 

[Blue Sparkle]

I'm not a very experienced diver, but I think there are some parallels to taking your car in for service.

1) For me, I like to see a neat and tidy shop - that's just me. I know that a messy shop doesn't necessarily mean poor work is being done, but it just doesn't make me happy, so I look for the former. After all, I need to be comfortable with where my car is spending shop time.

2) It's not all about money, as people's habits are their habits, but on the other hand, you went to shop A (as I understand it) at least partly because their OW class price was considerably less than shop B's price. To be fair to the shop owner, it's probably hard to have the dedicated classroom and all new gear on half the funds. Now that doesn't mean the shop can't be tidy, so that may a separate issue, but there is probably some correlation between the class prices and the gear and classroom space.

I'm on as much of a budget as anyone, and certainly no-one should take financial advice from me (!), but I often find that if you are willing to pay a little bit more than the cheapest, it pays off.

Also, as mentioned above, I think you should go to the shop that makes you comfortable. I'm guessing from your post that you will always have a nagging doubt in your mind if you take your gear to the less-tidy shop, whether or not the service is top notch. But maybe not, once you get to know the people a bit more (?)

B.

 

[gotwake]

I like the restaurant analogy someone used. When I lived in Raleigh, we went to the best little Chinese-Mongolian place at least twice a week. If you just went by appearances, I doubt you would go in to eat. But, that place almost had a religious following. I would judge any LDS by their instructors not by whether a bench has some crap on it.