Aluminum vs Steel tanks

[Boogie711]

Thank you for your helpful advice ... please allow me to rephrase my question, then:

I can dive a "Neutral 80" aluminum cylinder (which is approximately neutral when empty and approximately 5-6 lbs negative when full) in a wetsuit, and according to you, this is DIR.

Or I can dive a Faber LP 95 steel cylinder (which is very slightly positive when empty and approximately 5-6 lbs negative when full) in a wetsuit, and according to you, this is NOT DIR.

Can you please explain for me why one is considered DIR and the other is not?

 

[d33ps1x]

I'm merely interested in the rationale behind why people would consider one setup DIR and the other one not.

If nitpickers wish to point out exceptions to the rule then feel free to do so.

It still doesn't remove the usefulness of a generalized rule to guide, as Jonnythan likes to say, 99.9% of the diving population in the right direction. To expect a new diver to, rather than follow a simple and generally correct rule learn the details of tank specifications is really a waste of everyones time and fraught with difficulties. I mean look at you. A diver with at least 70 dives or so still has trouble keeping all the facts and figures straight. Generalized rules allow a greater number of people to fit the "diver" mold safely. All organizations do it. The society you live in does it. You have restrictions placed on you that you probably would never attempt to break but they are regardless because it becomes a waste of time to allow for all the exceptions to the rule.

If distinguishing that I comes before E except after C is that important to you both then do feel free to do so until you are blue in the face.

To insinuate that I have turned my brain off because I prefer to follow an easy and generalized rule is a tad judgemental on your part.

Because I prefer to focus on simplicity rather than keep an ongoing list of exceptions does not make me a stupid man, perhaps a simple man, but to each their own.

 

[jonnythan]

Wow, I guess I didn't realize that DIR was about giving brand new divers easy to follow rules so they don't mess up. I was under the impression that it was about...

Well. Nevermind.

I'm mistaken, then.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Guys ... I'm gonna just interject something here. Given most of you have adopted an Internet name (and this isn't a local board) you should respect that each of you did so because you'd prefer not to have your own name in the public domain.

As a courtesy, please respect that of each other (I know ... y'all know each other) and refrain from using personal names unless the person you are referring to says it's OK to do so.

I've edited a couple of posts here ... it isn't that you are breaking rules, per se ... it's just out of prudence. I changed nothing except references to people's proper names ... so the meaning of your post hasn't changed at all. I'm simply interested in respecting your right to remain anonymous if that's what you choose to do.

I know the the Ontario board does it differently. But I have to assume that on this board y'all took these Internet names for a reason.

Thanks ... carry on ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[d33ps1x]

I've edited a couple of posts here ... it isn't that you are breaking rules, per se ... it's just out of prudence. I changed nothing except references to people's proper names ... so the meaning of your post hasn't changed at all. I'm simply interested in respecting your right to remain anonymous if that's what you choose to do.

Thanks ... carry on ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Thanks Bob. Point taken. All three of us have met each other and I would assume that at least Jonnythan is comfortable with being called by his first name but we'll stick to our listed moniker regardless.

 

[jonnythan]

I don't care what you call me... I imagine you might even have some new ones thought up next time I'm up there..

 

[headhunter]

I think the real answer is that no deep diving should really be done in a thick wetsuit, period, unless you know for sure that you can swim the thing up.

OK... at the risk of opening up another can of worms, is there a "rule of thumb" for what would be considered too deep to reasonably dive in a wetsuit due to it's compression. This is assuming one has enough gas for the dive, all other safety criteria has been met, etc. It seems that I've seen a couple of people in agreement that this is "the answer". Am I still in DIR territory here with this question? If not, just let me know and we'll just stick to my original question.

In the same vien as the original discussion about steel singles vs aluminum singles, would a set of AL 80s used as doubles fall in to the same category as most single steel cylinders. I think that this is a question that naturally follows the progression of the original discussion.

By the way, I do plan on going to a dry suit at some point in the future, but for now will be diving wet. Even when I have a dry suit, I imagine that I may sometimes still dive wet depending on the dive I plan.

Thanks to everyone that is participating. I'm actually learning and my level of understanding is gettting better from reading all of the posts. It's a bit like reading a book before taking a class to get more out of the class when you're in it.

Christian

 

[d33ps1x]

I don't care what you call me... I imagine you might even have some new ones thought up next time I'm up there..

I do have a couple of nice ones stewing in my small and simple brain but they are questionable as Scubaboard content.

 

[d33ps1x]

Thanks to everyone that is participating. I'm actually learning and my level of understanding is gettting better from reading all of the posts.
Christian

I'm glad we could entertain you. :monkeydan

 

[Soggy]

OK... at the risk of opening up another can of worms, is there a "rule of thumb" for what would be considered too deep to reasonably dive in a wetsuit due to it's compression. This is assuming one has enough gas for the dive, all other safety criteria has been met, etc. It seems that I've seen a couple of people in agreement that this is "the answer". Am I still in DIR territory here with this question? If not, just let me know and we'll just stick to my original question.

I've never seen/heard anyone say that you shouldn't dive deep in a wetsuit...it's just what I've come up with from thinking the problem through. It's more a problem with thick wetsuits that are subject to lots of compression....I wouldn't say that you can't dive deep in a 3mm wetsuit, for example, again, as long as you are diving a balanced rig.