Aluminum vs Steel tanks

[headhunter]

I hate posting to this forums but I will against my better judgement since I see some potentially very dangerous and ill-thought advice being dished out yet again.

I believe it DOES matter if you are diving that steel tank(s) with a 7 mm in cold water. Almost more so.

Why? It matters when you are at 4 ATA, your suit has little or no ability to buoy you up do to compression and and your wing punctures with the lack of ability to release this non-dtichable weight. Throw in the fact that wet divers, like neoprene dry divers, are required to carry more lead to get them to depth which becomes essentially useless AT depth. Ditching your removable lead maybe will get you back up but once that nice thick 7 mm wetsuit starts regaining bouyancy you are in for a hell of a ride up.

You get people talking about using an bag as an alternate lift source. Why not D.I.R. in the first place and prevent the issue altogether?

The rule is steel with dry and aluminum with wet for a reason. Better to not disregard the suggestions made throughout your Fundamentals book and course. Doing it right only has one definition.

I appreciate the advice and it all makes sense. To maintain intellectual integrity, I like to consider all views from those that are GUE trained.

I imagine that there is an "official" position by GUE on the issue. I've read the book and it does appear that the official position is as you state. I also know that there are "hard and fast" rules and rules "that depend" on the specific situation. I just wasn't sure if this was one of those that depend on how large of a tank, reasons behind the rule, etc. I say this because on the surface of the discussion, it looks like just going straight from an AL 80 to a steel 80 doesn't seem like enough of a difference to worry about.

Again, I accept that I could be completely wrong with this comment. I remember diving steel 72s wet for years and not thinking we were over weighted. Granted this was at a time when no one really used aluminum tanks in my area and just because we didn't think we were over weighted didn't mean that we actually weren't overweighted.

It would be interesting to see what some of the GUE instructors have to say if they wouldn't mind commenting.

Thanks again d33ps1x for adding dimension to the discussion.

Christian

 

[jonnythan]

Creative.

Am I ever glad I stuck with my original decision to bow out of this one.

Like I said, in some cases, perhaps it can be. I can't imagine a diver in a 7mm wetsuit needing less than, say, 18 pounds of lead, but I could be proven wrong on that. I also clearly said it's something each diver needs to consider carefully. You either have a balanced rig or you don't.. and it's more than possible to have a balanced rig with a steel tank and a wetsuit.

Perhaps I should rephrase.. "It shouldn't be a problem for 99% or more of the divers out there."

 

[d33ps1x]

Staying well enough alone.

 

[d33ps1x]

Same here.

 

[jonnythan]

I think your rule is silly and baseless. Not only that, but it discourages a proper thought process. It smacks of "I don't care if it works and your rig is balanced, it violates The Rule." My DIRF instructor specifically said steel singles are fine as long as you're diving a balanced rig.

Think more, listen to rules less. If your rig makes sense and is balanced and safe, dive it.

 

[JeffG]

I think your rule is silly and baseless. Not only that, but it discourages a proper thought process. It smacks of "I don't care if it works and your rig is balanced, it violates The Rule." My DIRF instructor specifically said steel singles are fine as long as you're diving a balanced rig.

Think more, listen to rules less. If your rig makes sense and is balanced and safe, dive it.

What about when the rule comes out with the right solution, and the thought processes come out with the wrong one?

(as is the case here)

 

[R_Deluca]

I think your rule is silly and baseless. Not only that, but it discourages a proper thought process. It smacks of "I don't care if it works and your rig is balanced, it violates The Rule." My DIRF instructor specifically said steel singles are fine as long as you're diving a balanced rig.

Think more, listen to rules less. If your rig makes sense and is balanced and safe, dive it.

Dude. You have over 3000 posts on here and 60 or 70 dives under your belt.

You have been a DIR expert dishing out internet advice long before you ever passed or even attended a fundies class. I was quite frankly a little blown away when you recently mentioned you passed a fundies. I was honestly under the impression you were an instructor or something by the way you go on on here.

Maybe once you get a little more than 60 or 70 dives under your belt we'll start believing you are speaking from experience and not an internet msg board education.

 

[Ontario Diver]

I think your rule is silly and baseless.

It is not silly nor baseless. It is an opinion and has some merits. As do yours.

DIR is a tight, complete, and specific set of rules. That is both its strength and sometimes its biggest weakness. d33ps1x has stated the DIR rule and attempted to explain the reasons behind it. He has also followed DIR doctrine in his "follow the rules" concept.

I do not always agree with all of the DIR concepts but I have never called it silly or baseless.

 

[Boogie711]

OK - so before this thread devolves into a bunch of finger pointing and accusations of idiocy, perhaps someone can explain for me this hypothetical situation:

I can dive a 7mm wetsuit with a Faber LP95, or I can dive a 7mm wetsuit with an AL80 by Catalina.

The Catalina 80 is neutral when empty, and about -4.5 when full. The Faber LP 95 is +0.4 when empty, and -5.5 or so when full.

Using the "steel = drysuit" argument, why is the Faber an unbalanced rig, compared to the alternative?

 

[jonnythan]

LOL, you guys can say whatever you want... DIR is having a balanced rig, whether it's with a steel tank or not. Sounds like a few of you have taken the "no steel tanks with wetsuits" rule some people have come up with (it is my understanding that the rule was originally intended for doubles) and extrapolated it too far.

You can have a balanced rig with a steel tank and wetsuit, and it's DIR, no matter how many dives I have